Hi guys, I know there are some people here who have either sporadically or regularly trained with Mr Wingrove (and I think Mr Wingrove's posted here himself once, if I remember rightly). I've just been watching some youtube videos of him in action after one of my friends trained with him a while ago. Does he actually injure his students in training, as the way that some of them seem to drop unconscious like a sack of potatoes or roll about clutching fingers, arms etc seems to show him doing them a real disservice during tutorials? Do people walk away intact from his lessons (discounting the usual scrapes you get from a martial arts class)?
I've no idea, as I have never trained with him - but I have watched him at Seni a few times and well.... this thread isn't about opinions anyway !! Gary
I've been know to take the odd knock from TW (from quite a few other Sensei's as well over the years) It's NOT for the feint hearted or the recreational martial arts enthusiasts who don't like the feel of a reality combat zone. However, I'm still here and MUCH wiser for it. No pain no gain, feeling is believing boys.
Hanshi Wingrove Moosey, I have studied the martial arts for some 37 years now. I was very fortunate to be invited to a seminar By Hanshi Wingrove. One of the best things i have had the priviledge to do. Terry is the epitome of old school martial arts, he teaches to all and one regardless of age and creed. He is true and gentle, efficient and effective teaching true Koryu. To be truly honest you will be very hard pushed to meet a true gentleman (in Old British sayings) and in Japanese ( True Samuria). His teaching is not for the faint hearted but no one is hurt that Terry is not in control off. All i can say is that he is that good professional and effective that myself and many other students of Jutsu continue to attend. Just to finish it is really good to to be involed within the Jutsu family and i do mean family, i have met some great guys from Scotland, England and Poland while being involved with the Jutsu family, we are still hear walking, breathing and alive.Come along to the next possible seminar in your area and see for your self.
Terry Wingrove Hanshi I have trained with Terry a few times and can honestly say I have been put in a lot ( and I mean a lot!) of pain very quickly and very effortlessly. The knowledge this man has of jutsu is phenomenal, I have learned so much in the short time I have known him. With regards to injuries, some bruising, bumps and maybe a bit tender the next day but never anything serious...... What would he gain and what would we learn if he were to dissable his students every time he taught them? He has a 100% record of no major injuries at any of his seminars which is a testament to the skill and control of this living legend. ( if he wanted to seriously hurt someone I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that he is capable.) On a personal note he is one of the most interesting characters I have ever met, a real pleasure to be around. He is very open and will speak his mind. A great ( and sometimes twisted!) sense of humour.... I could go on..... I will finish with..... Feeling is believing!
I'm sorry, but I just watched a senior instructor floor a white belt as a technique demonstration. It was utterly unnecessary. What did his students learn from that, that they couldn't have learnt from him hitting a pad, instead of a novice? It's only old school in the way than men raping their wives is old school. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it good. I get that he is the polar opposite from 99.9% of Ju-Jitsu training in the west, which is based on compliant techniques and doing forward rolls for 2 hours at a time, but that doesn't mean that he is the best way of doing things, only the most extreme. But I suppose most people go into it knowing what they're going to get. The S&M crowd have to get their training from somewhere, after all.
I have trained with Hanshi Wingrove before and yes I came away with a few bruises but what do you expect? If you are going to train in the Martial Arts you have got to expect them. Otherwise how would you know if it works or what it feels like to give or receive. If you were ever to be involved in a real situation what would your reaction be like if it was the first time you got tagged or bruised? It is best to find out in a controlled safe enviroment so you can prepare for any eventuality. I am looking forward to the next time I am able to train again with Hanshi Wingrove.
I've known Terry Sensei for about six years and I've attended a few seminars with him. Just to qualify that I attended a weekend course with him in Poland, and I invited him to teach in my Dojo in Manchester, I also co-hosted a course with him in Wigan. I've also seen him at Seni and been to a course he hosted with another instructor. I also attended an EKF meeting with him. Here's a few unbiased observations: 1) In terms of British Karate, he is experience-wise the senior man in the UK. He was the late Vernon Bell's senior student beginning training with him in 1957, having previously done Jujutsu with him. So he offers insights into the years of British Karate (with Murikami, Mochizuki, Nam etc) from before the likes of Kanazawa, Enoeda, Suzuki arrived here. 2) He then spent 21 years in Japan (after a spell in south africa) in which time he trained with some of the true legends of martial arts including Morihei Ueshiba, Chojiro Tani, Masafumi Suzuki, Sato Kimbei, Hiroshi Fujimoto, Hideo Tsuchiya and many more. He graded 5th Dan in 1972 at the first All Japan All-Styles grading examination under FAJKO in Chiba. 3) His legit grades are pretty unparalleled. He holds 9th Dan Jujutsu as well as recently being awarded 9th Dan Karate at a special grading by Kinjo Hiroshi, one of Japan's senior Karatekas. He also holds Dan grades, received in Japan in Judo and Aikido. 4) He is extremely generous with his time, knowledge and resources. If people want to learn from him, he will teach them. When I hosted two courses with him, they made negative profit financially. I've also known him host free seminars with just a charity donation as entrance fee. On to the question, does he actually injure students... In my time in martial arts I've had many injuries - none of them were inflicted on me by Terry Sensei. The caveat is this - his techniques are incredibly painful. And I mean unbelievably painful. BUT the pain is temporary. After a full weekend training with him, I had a few bruises, a couple of red marks and a sore throat (the chokes), but nothing that still hurt two days later. He has some techniques that take you to a level of pain, that has to be felt to be appreciated, but he is always in control and knows when to stop. To be honest, after the courses I put on with him, I had mostly excellent feedback - I also had a few people say they thought the techniques were too rough (particularly the flesh squeezing, tearing etc) but that's why not every martial art is for everybody. Some who like Taekwondo may not like Judo - it doesn't mean Judo is bad. I'd recommend his course 100% - they gave me a lot of food for thought. They are not style-specific. It's all practical and with great underlying principles and knowledge. Overall - a superb teacher (considering he's a southerner)
Jamie, Alan, I totally agree, Terry is feeling is believing.Jamie i also agree he has to be one of the funniest (sense of humour) people you are ever going to meet. For all of the people out there if you are not sure come along for the first time and sit at the side, watch with awe as a true master shows(Hidden) OKU NO. you are under no obligation other than to see for yourself. Afterwards join in and make comment for yourself. That i wil respect.Oss
Senior instructor- do you mean Terry? Was the White belt seriously hurt? Were you there? I can only speak from my experience and there are many things that need to be applied to be able to understand. I am most definitely not into S&M but genuinely interested in jutsu. I also TRUST Terry that I will be safe and not seriously injured.
I don't think anybody is disputing the mans ability , and please , drop the not so subtle "well if you can't handle teh realz digs". The problem , as such , is that he's doing it to compliant ukes , i'd be mighty brassed off if i was pulled out at a course and just knocked out as a demo , if it happens in free practice that's different , and to lesser extent , to be expected from time to time.
Gary Wado, as i say come along and see for yourself. Koryo (old school). Not only look at the mans credentials for the past 50 plus years, come along an d experience for yourself, then question. I have trained with most masters in the arts, Including Vernon the founder of British Karate who i was fortunate to sit my Shodan in both Karate and Ju Jitsu.Terry says feeling is beleiving. I say seeing and feeling is believing. Bassai, come along you are all welcome to attend like minded people,studying the martial arts.
yoseikan, Thank you for the invite, however I just asked what Koryu he taught. There is a huge difference between teaching in an "old school" style or indeed teaching techniques found in Koryu and actually learning / training in or with a koryu. If you do not train with a bone-fide Koryu group, you are not "doing" Koryu. Gary
yes He got up, eventually It's all on youtube. The S&M comment was a joke. You didn't answer my question. What did his students learn from him punching a white belt (a senior grade I might understand, a bit) instead of a bag or a pad. And the 'you gotta know what a technique feels like on the receiving end' line is pure macho BS. I don't need to get my nose broken before I can punch someone in theirs.
