I trained at 2 different Wing Chun schools. I settled on the second one because it has sparring along with better teachers. I am a bit confused because they both claim the Ip Man lineage, yet the styles of Wing Chun are completely different. The footwork and stance is different. The techniques are different. One has ground work and throws and hook punches the other doesn't. What is the deal with that? How can they both be the same lineage yet so different?
May be one has evolved while another hasn't. Since A + B > A, it's better to take A + B than to take A.
It has nothing to do with evolving or not. It has to do with how one was taught, how one interprets the often abstract nature of wing chun, and how one's "training methodology" support real life (or not!). For example, I learned a very external fast aggressive violent version of ____ hands in wing chun. For many years I thought that's the way everyone WC'er trained...until I ventured out into the world and saw "the other side" of WC (right, wrong, or indifferent). As far as "old school WC"... whatever. "old" is a relevant term anyways!!! haha.
I have not seen any - ground work, - throws, and - hook punches, taught in Ip Man lineage yet. Can someone put up a WC clip to prove that I'm wrong?
It's not a matter of wrong or right...it's simply a matter of interpreting the theories of WC. Just because you (general "you") have never been exposed to or seen training methodologies of certain interpretations of the forms and their intrinsic applications does not mean they aren't there. For example, IMO if you take the basic ideas of the forms, and place them on the horizontal plane, an entire new world opens up. As for 'hook punches'... third form.
Do you have the name of a WC instructor that teaches a hook punch application from the third form? If so, who?
Maybe you walked into an MMA gym that teaches Wing Chun classes and... I dunno... didn't realise you were doing other classes too? :dunno:
Typed in "Wing Chun hook punch" and did a google video search. This popped up: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT5fmqSTJP4"]wing chun hook punch - YouTube[/ame] WC has throws and some groundwork. The groundwork WC is usually directed at escaping and standing up again. Some insist that all the groundwork was already in WC. And some of that stuff looks pretty sketchy to me. IMO the best stuff is borrowed from good grappling systems, integrated into the training and tested against resistance. Call it cross-training, whatever. If it works, that's good. If it doesn't ...well...
Maybe the world has gone truly meta and there is a competent mma coach lying about his wing chun credentials for profit.
Ummm, I sure hope that isn't an actual application :bang: Thought someone said WC was for self defense. Absolutely no blade awareness on the passing move... might as well sit there and trade blows with a knife... about the same result. I could understand if the video was for a rule set that never allowed knives, but otherwise it is hard to believe that application is taught like that. Even so, wouldn't an undercut to the body work better?
Isn’t the 3rd form a recovery form, ie if you mess up then use those as a last resort to get you back into a position where you can apply the principles of the first 2 forms? So does wing chun have hook punches, or does it simply show you how to use one to recover and get back on tract? Does wing chun show how to set up a hook punch, how to move and angle to throw it, how to use it in combinations, the different angles it can be thrown at and so on? As for throws I have seen sweeps but not throws as in the sense of o goshi, tai otoshi, ipon sionagi, single and double legs that can be found in other southern and Chinese arts, indeed the level changes and bending of the body and arm positions needed for those throws seems country to wing chun principles The above isn’t an attack on wing chun (I know shock horror coming from me) but some observations its a narrow skillset which can be fine if it makes the art easy to learn and efficient time wise As for ground work in wing chun, whilst it can be useful when striking inside someone guard, and building sensitivity and listening skills is always useful when grappling, it doesn’t have the necessary fundamental skills of using/moving the hips and arm positions that good grappling requires . And in fact teaches you arm positions and ways to move your arms which if on your back will get your arms Broken As for the original question Yip man made his living teaching martial arts, he seemed to teach people differently depending on what they were in relation to him (inside or outside the door) and I suspect how much money they had. Add to that people took advantage of his name after his death to make their own fortunes of his art and name (even if they had only known him for a short time) and its no wonder that two people coming from his line would have different arts
Some may view it that way I guess. I don't. I use any piece/part of WC as I see fit. Just like using letters from an alphabet to form words, etc. Yes and yes. I guess that would depend on the training method employed by the instructor. Sorry but I don't know what those terms are you mention(?)...but WC has a lot of body movement and footwork. It really all depends on whether one takes a "literal/narrow" view of the forms/movements/theories/ideas or a liberal view. Much can be accomplished with the latter. IMHO. I'd agree with you on this. Compared to other arts/systems, WC is quite narrow. Not a bad thing IMO. Perhaps. When rolling with Gracie JJ guys, I had to adjust; learn how to apply the principles in their environment, etc. I was definitely a learning experience. Still lots to learn there! Those guys do 'chi sau' in their own special way. They flow with applied force/strength, etc using it to their advantage. Very cool. I suppose your right(?). Relation and money are/were strong motivators for him.
There aren't any hook punches. What most people mistakenly see as one is called (in English) Ginger Fist. The arm cuts back to center by pulling the elbow in just like the cut back from mun sao. The wrist whips and the strike is with the middle row of knuckles. It's for striking soft targets but Ip Man didn't teach its use often. Yep. You can adapt the wing chun principles to groundfighting, some of it you can toss directly into ground and pound, but there's no framework for grappling on its own. It's adapted at best. And on top of that he also taught people to their potential for understanding the system. Hit the nail right on the head though icefield.
Perhaps in yours, not in mine. (speaking of the ginger fist). It's a hook punch, a basic idea of how to do one, tied to your horse turn for power. That's all.
