Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by David Silver, Mar 1, 2021.
If your going to copy paste wiki, can you link your sources please:
And also give a little context?
I collected that info from three websites to be accurate and consistent, and to make a simple point about air being made of molecules which are made of atoms which are made of...
but it is basic knowledge about air. Are you asking me to clarify air itself now? April fools.
Context for what? This conversation is already in the context that qi is energy. Do you have an actual question? I think I explained the topic of Qi in a lot of detail and we now could move on to topics related to energy, like how its used in martial arts, and healing, and acupuncture and related to traditional meditation and like 100 other things.
Well there's what I think is a massive mistake in the first section, and I'd like to see the original to see if it's an editing mistake, a context mistake, or whether I myself am mistaken, (which is likely)
So if you will indulge me, sources please!
The middle bit is from wiki I can tell, as you've left the hyperlinks in.
So if someone purports to be able to increase/manipulate/use chi for some sort of purpose such readings should change or be otherwise detectable?
It's why all Chinese martial arts are banned within 100k of the large hadron collider, they are literally that powerfull!
Not aikido though, we all know aikido doesn't work!
As you havn't replied, I thought I'd pull up this sentence first.
I don't think this is true, the ionosphere section of the atmosphere has some ionised gases in it, but the vast majority of the "natural air", especially the bit we breathe, is not ionised.
But I'm not an expert here, but I'd like to see your source for this? As maybe I'm missing out some context or I may very well be just wrong!
I DID leave hyperlinks, thinking someone (you) might want to click them whilst pondering. So, yes, those are links. And they are in fact already as you say clickable to those aforementioned locations you are currently seeking.
@Smitfire Yes. But we don't have any medical discipline (except maybe heart math) who are regularly measuring human energy levels (or +/-) as a metric for anything, aside from monitoring your basic survival.
Changing your energy causes detectable changes. For instance, brain waves are frequencies of energy.
Or, we know for instance that the location of acupoints on the body do already have higher conductivity that the surrounding areas. But having MORE energy only is beneficial if you have a plan to do something with it. Because that same energy can make you a spaz with insomnia, etc.
Think of liliikke: a Hung Gar Kung Fu fighter in a sparring situation or competition... They walk out, and do their fire breathing Haaa, Haaa, Haaa and then they have a short-term energy boost to fight. That same breathing is what you see in San Chin Kata in Karate. Because it does the same thing.
Or, more extreme examples like Tibetan monks at the top of the Himalayas practicing tummo (hot breath w specific intention activating frontal cortex), basically naked in wet sheets for hour or days. You or I would die rapidly. They are fine, and they melt a circle of snow around their bodies. Way back in 1982, Harvard researcher Herb Benson from my area in Boston was onto this
The Power of Deep-State-Meditation, and how a Harvard Study Found Monks with 'Supernatural Abilities' — Curiosmos
Ions, yes, we can't see them, but its sure interesting to think about. For instance, modern air filters generate negative ions to simulate the ideal healthy conditions similar to being in a forest:
Negative Ions Create Positive Vibes
Negatively charged ions are capable of "taking" your excess electrons and helping to balance your system back to its natural state. But many of us aren't breathing fresh air much anymore. I live in the woods.
"Ions are molecules that have gained or lost an electrical charge. . They are created in nature as air molecules break apart due to sunlight, radiation, and moving air and water. You may have experienced the power of negative ions when you last set foot on the beach or walked beneath a waterfall. While part of the euphoria is simply being around these wondrous settings and away from the normal pressures of home and work, the air circulating in the mountains and the beach is said to contain tens of thousands of negative ions -- Much more than the average home or office building, which contain dozens or hundreds, and many register a flat zero.
"The action of the pounding surf creates negative air ions and we also see it immediately after spring thunderstorms when people report lightened moods," says ion researcher Michael Terman, PhD, of Columbia University in New York."
Or Scientists Reveal Why "Forest Bathing" or Going to the Beach Boosts Our Well-Being
Versus: The Harmful Effects of Positive Ions on Your Health
"Positive ions are small molecules that have gained a positive charge. Most forms of pollution, toxic chemicals, pollen, mold, pet dander, and other harmful chemicals in the air all carry a positive electrical charge, making them positive ions...
Electronic devices like televisions, phones, and computers
Toxic carpeting, upholstery, and paint
Air pollution, especially in crowded cities and industrial zones
Most studies have found that levels of positive ions are extremely high with homes, cities, and office buildings. "
They are links to further articles, not the source article for your statement that air is mostly ionised nitrogen and oxygen.
Which as far as I can see is wrong.
Unless your willing to correct the point, perhaps you should admit your wrong too.
Ionised air is mostly using pseudo scientific woo to sell poor quality air filters.
A good air Ioniser just drops the particulate level of the air, and can be really good for allergy sufferers.
Negative Air Ions and Their Effects on Human Health and Air Quality Improvement
This reply above is what is commonly known as "blithering". Air is air. It can be negatively, positively, or not charged as extensively explained in multiple links above. There is nothing woo happening here. Ions are not debatable, or a crucial aspect, and harping on that is a distraction.
Even if you inhale "dead" non-ionized air, what happens? Your metabolic process combining food/fat with air delivers energy as O2 and nitric oxide into your huge muscles, and incredibly smart brain, allowing them to function. Thats Qi.
The key here is, your posting information you don't understand, and then trying to make conclusions based on your incomplete understanding of the topic to "prove" Qi training is something.
Next up, this sentence, nitric oxide, isn't available muscular energy, as far as I can tell it's a signalling molecule, and doesn't come from nitrogen you have breathed, but nitrates you eat, which are very different things.
Have you got a link for this? Because again, it doesn't seem to make any sense.
There isn't anything I have posted that I don't understand fairly well. It makes sense. Trying to crash course on these topics is not the best way to try and fight and find a disagreement. Ive been doing this for decades and have wrapped my brain confidently around the topic with great effort, hours and days and weeks and years of study, practice, teaching, trial and error. Do you have a question?
Im only using some Western terms to help bridge the gap to qigong theory. Maybe you'd do better reading that from the source instead.
Nitric oxide is a known topic. Vaguely interesting, undebatable. Remember when the Winter Olympics team was drinking beet juice as their 'secret weapon" to increase their performance via nitric oxide? I do. Know where else you can find it? Boner pills. It improves circulation and cell signaling and results in more energy. Which is called Qi in China. Is Nitric Oxide Actually Good for You?
Your semantics about air and which molecule specifically gives us energy is entirely missing the point. Energy is related to our entire biochemistry and its acid/alkaline balance. What else is acid/alkaline? Batteries. Do you have a question?
April fools! Im just kidding, I don't care about this silly topic, I made it all up. Ok byeeeee. Here's proof.
Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, it isn't a source of energy, and the nitrogen you breathe is inert, it is not absorbed into the body, if you want nitrates in your body, you have to eat them, most plants get them via nitrogen fixing, something any school level chemistry and biology student learns about.
You definitely dont understand the things your claiming to know "fairly well".
It's ok to admit your wrong about things, that's how we learn.
I'm definitely wrong about a lot of things.
For instance I clicked on your link, thinking it would be funny!
Interesting point, ionising air also creates ozone, ozone is very bad for you, so much so, air Ionisers have strict limits about the amount they can give out.
So yea, charged air does do something for your health, but depending on the dose, it's not all good.
I asked a Chinese friends of mine how to say "electricity" in Chinese and his answer was "dian", so I doubt "Qi" just means all forms of energy in Chinese. When I study Tai Chi, my instructor is very careful to use the term "energetics" rather than energy (in the strict technical sense), like when he's fixing my posture or form, using terms like gravity and balance, "being rooted" etc. I really wonder how many decent instructors believe in Qi as something magical, or separate from basic biomechanics. So far I haven't come across this, if anything my current teacher seems to have a very simple, balanced explanations for these things rather than mystical or any attempt to associate it with actual anatomic function aside from what seems like common sense.
For instance, standing in Zhang Zhuang properly I can definitely feel my body expending (ie wasting) more energy to keep myself standing when I'm not properly "sitting" into the position. At that point, I can start to feel which of my muscles needs work at this posture. Common sense tells me my upper body and back muscles are working harder than they should, so the feeling upon sinking my weight properly onto my frame is palpable, and when told "This is how you 'sink' the Qi", it makes perfect sense. On the other hand, I think trying to make Qi fit within modern anatomical science is a bit like mixing apples and oranges, in the same way most emotions can't really just be simplified into hormones and neurological chemistry. Mixing art and science is fraught with this kind of dilemma, I think.
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