me? attitude problem? no idea what you're talkin about Congratulations Jadesdaddy - you managed to irritate me enough in one posting to go on my ignore list. :bang: :woo: Enjoying the silence already...
Hi Taoquan, The length of my reply is disproportionate to the attention I gave it I sincerely appreciate the effort that you put forth in your reply. Dialup is NOT FUN, and I have a lot to get through.It was helpful (and the numbering idea was great, btw). Born curious, I was. I'm still confused. If a master's form, his/her "fluidity", if you like, can be produced by "mostly physical training", then how do others see whether the artist's Qi is being "used"? That is, if not "defined" or exhibited by external movement, then how can a teacher know that a student is using Qi? (You did ask me to keep the questions coming) Point taken. I don't know. Not necessarily. I experience dreams, and while the dreams are real, the content is not, even though I often perceive the content as real, while I'm dreaming it. Human perception does not always = reality. I don't know...possibly by actions... I would agree with that. Yes, faith. Very much appreciated, regards, LQ
Woohooo! Is that an all time record then? Strange how big mouths don't like to hear the truth isn't it? You seem pretty irritable anyway, I just hope to god that your not a teacher because you really lack the one quality that is required of a good teacher and that is patience. As for the ignore list I bet your reading this right now, it's a comon ploy from those who don't have an answer "your now on my ignore list" Guess what, I don't consider it much of a loss, infact no loss at all
Hi jkz, I like that, the removal of elitism. Most of the books I've read advise students to continue to regard themselves as students, and to avoid becoming arrogant. I like that too...IME the general public have no idea that taiji is a bonafide MA. LQ
Hi Visage, As a newbie, I have to ask... Is this a joke, or not? It's not completely unimaginable that it could be taken either way. ? LQ Being a
I think it might be becoming something of an honour to be on the ignore list, Jadesdaddy. Back to qi. Many of you will probably know by now that I have several reasons for my wariness of qi. I remembered another one, which really brought home why I'm not neutral on the issue. I was doing cloud hands a while back and started to feel the so-called qi sensations. I decided as an experiment to focus on that feeling and work increasingly towards that feeling of fullness and my hands feeling as if they were moving themselves - almost as if they were riding on tram lines in the air. Now the more I gave in to that feeling, the less and less quality there was in the reeling silk (constant long axial rotation) and this reminded me of when i'd learned the Sun style routine a few years back. That style has no reeling silk in its cloud hands - just a kind of "wax on, wax off" type movement with the palms maintaining a forwards facing throughout. I remembered that the most "qi" I'd ever felt was when doing it that way. I let my cloud hands turn to the Sun style version - buzz buzz buzz. Just one problem - with no reeling silk, the movement becomes a lot less effective in combat. My conclusion was to avoid "qi sensations" because they are actually a distraction that can damage the quality of my movements. If I keep the muscles twisting back and forth with overt reeling silk, the sensations stay away, and my techniques work great. It is just another viewpoint. I came across the view that qi sensations were negative quite a lot of years ago when I was told "don't worry - they'll go away when you have no unwanted muscle tension left." That's another perspective too - that you only feel the resistance (like when an electric wire gets hot - because of the resistance of the wire to the electricity.) I am stating these because very few people are prepared to question whether or not qi sensations are actually a good thing. My experience says they're not - not for me anyway.
Hi Taoquan, Are you speculating whether Qi is a perfect harmonization, or drawing a distinction between the two? Maybe it is the human body being relaxed, which is something for the most part this day and age few would experience? Just throwing ideas around. Thanks Taoquan, LQ
Hello. I was enjoying this thread until I read this. No-one else seems bothered by this, but I am. I don't think it was "kissing"..it seemed to me to be politeness. That's just plain nasty. I thought martial artists, of all people, had an obligation to show judgement, restraint, and self-control, no matter how angry they might become. IMHO this kind of name-calling should have been dealt with by the moderators....the label, in particular. I'll be back tomorrow - this has left a sour taste in my mouth. No, I'm not "sensitive"....I know bad taste/abuse when I read it. No-one else is bothered by this? L Q
First lesson taught in traditional martial arts when they first came out of Japan late fifties early sixties. Good manners and proper ettiquette must be obseved but most of all a humble and sincere attitude to training. Before anyone accuses me of "tree hugging" This was demanded because anyone displaying bad manners or arrogance would get their but kicked. Course that was face to face. On the net anyone can be a supreme fighter. regards koyo
This is hard to describe, and honestly I cannot comment on it much more, because honestly I don't know for sure. I am not a master instructor and don't want to make comments I don't know of. I personally suspect much as to do with how they are doing the form, i.e. with intent, focus and "spirit" basically showing they have trained. But not in the physical sense so a student would be doing the form fast and "hard", but with fluidity and grace, yet having that kind of power. to quote the classics "steel wrapped in cotton" appearance. Sorry cannot help you much there LQ guess i have to train harder!
Okay JK, so you can claim to have felt something unique am I understanding this here? (not trying to convert you btw ) I agree here, when you first feel Qi and these distending sensations, warmth, tingling, any other sensations, they generally are useless in combat. Though, this is because it is incomplete. When you only feel it in one finger, hand, etc...this is essentially useless and you are exactly right w/o Silk reeling it becomes useless! Though I want to ask, rather than being turned off by the sensation, why not dig deeper and see if you integrate the whole "feeling of Qi" within the entire body? Then incorporate silk reeling? This is a very HIGH level of achievement that few are said to master. Rather than discarding it so quickly was there a reason you did not explore it?
Jadesdaddy, Welcome first and foremost, I would like to tackle your question as well. My Qi would be in your hand. As Onyomi pointed out it does not make one invincible and even if one claims to feel Qi it does not make you a superior MA. However, like any other skill it could be honed and a MA worth his salt would not let you take the eye anyway This brings to mind a story I once heard or legend the short of it is: There was a MA who was vastly arrogant, but for good reason. It was said he could not be defeated by any MA in the land. This was because he had trained to such a high level that his whole body was steel (iron shirt). For this reason no punch, kick or technique could damage him. Until one day he came across two brothers who were seeking revenge for the death of their other brother. These two brothers had trained for years as well perfecting their techniques all in the name of revenge. Needless to say, the brothers were getting it thoroughly handed to them by this other master. The brothers were about to die, till they did one final attack and struck the master on the top of the head. They struck with such ferocity it killed the master in one blow. Even through all of his training and Iron shirt techniques the master was not entirely invincible. Or so the story goes...
Hi Taoquan, Thank you for the welcome. First and foremost I think that I should say, that if my question offends anyone that is not the intent. I do firmly belive that we are all (or should be) free thinkers and I respect peoples choice to belive or not in Qi energy. I also respect their right to voice their opinion. But I do not respect arrogant bullies and neither should other MA's. My apolgies to those others of you that I might have offended. Now the question! Thank you for treating it seriously, the reason that I ask the question is because of the circus tricks that we "know" are body mechanics. I admit to also seeing things that I can't explain and for many a year before starting my taiji journey thought abou Qi. I appreciate the story and that no-one is invincible. But for now for me taiji is about the mechanics of my body and the way that I can best utilise it to defeat my opponent. Maybe when I have progressed further, in years to come, I will experience for myself these feelings that are being discusses. Maybe then I will have to re-evaluate. But for now ............. As for taking out peoples eyes I couldn't agree more
The sensation that the "arms are on rails" you can produce in cloud arms is not a "qi sensation," it's the sensation of going over a "well-oiled groove." If you've ever played the piano you'll realize that you could never play a complex piece thinking about all the individual finger movements. You move them semi-consciously and almost automatically through a kind of "well-oiled" neural pathway. Now if you were to concentrate on this aspect of piano-playing, trying to strengthen the sensation that the fingers are moving on their own, what would happen? Your playing would get sloppier and sloppier. All this has nothing to do with qi. Certain sensations associated with qi are caused by stretching your body more than it is accustomed to, and any sensation is more noticable when it first occurs. Therefore, to some extent, it may seem like certain qi sensations come and then go away. However, the most important ones, like throbbing, sense of being able to "breath" with the whole body, electricity, etc. pretty much just get stronger and stronger the more you practice. Also, you can't really focus on the qi once you're doing a martial form anyway, unless you're going super slow. You cultivate the qi with qigong and what level that cultivation has reached will be evident to you when you practice the form.
