punch conditioning

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by goatnipples2002, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    How can I SAFELY condition my Ippon-ken? How do I condition the inner (bone, ligaments, joints) as well as outter hand (skin and nerves)?
  2. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    safely n conditioning doesn't go hand in hand :D(rite jimmy??;))
    well use some light gloves first then slowly come down to bare knuckles, n listen to ur body,
    best ways of conditioning is hitting body parts with body parts itslef like forearm vs forearm.
  3. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Bareknuckle push-ups with a tight fist and only two knuckles makin' contact with the ground

    Later start heavy bag punching, I use 70% sand, 30% sawdust

    As for conditioning arms n body parts see Tkdwarrior's answer, except remember to make contact only with the fleshy areas of your forearms

    There are lots more things you can do, seek and you will eventually get it :)

  4. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    There is the traditional method of hand conditioning - thrusting your fingers into a bowl full of, first sand, later very small pebbles and later still larger pebbles.

    On the other hand, you could try simply not hitting people hard with ippon-ken. The only person I know of who hit hard with this weapon was Choki Motobu, who reportedly hit a makiwara at full force with ippon-ken. Personally I wouldn't recommend this. If you strike to the right places you don't need to hit hard with it. Try not even hitting at all but use it instead to dig and rub. Find the right places and that can be most unpleasant.

    Mike (a lover of single knuckle fists)
  5. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I think more damage is done conditioning than actually fighting....
  6. Joe karate

    Joe karate New Member

    If you need to condition the strike maybe you should rethink using it. Why not use a more suitable weapon. As i know it the one knuckle punch would go to the eye or threat, no <eed to onditio/ it. Wh/re are /ou plan
    ing on triking with thus puncht
  7. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    I've done it, (I did the middle ones, found it more stable ) but I wouldn't recommend it to any great extent and I would never actually use it.

    If you do, hit things that are soft lightly, then harder, can try to work up to pushups on them (on a mat, not on the hard wood)

    Don't try to push it to hard to fast though. I have not yet suffered any damage from it, but I only did it for a short time and then more or less stopped once I could do it.

    Just remember, it is not a "practical" tool. The few things that it might work better then a more stable weapon are things you'll have a very hard time explaining to the cops later on. Plus the accuracy required likely won't be there in a real situation...

    It's a novelty thing, like nunchaku wrist rolls and butterfly kicks.
  8. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    How does that condition your forearms? It conditions the tissue ... but if you strike with the tissue then you're providing your opponent with an extra layer of padding.

    I've been taught (specifically in Cimande Silat) to relaxe the hand and forearm muscles and strike with the blade of the bone.

    But, as others have pointed out in this thread, the conditioning is a slow, tedious, and painful process. The end results can be pretty cool ... and, at least for forearms, pretty practical. But it's not something to rush (you'll really screw yourself) or to take lightly (you'll be wasting your time).

    I've never considered conditioning for a single knuckle punch so have no advice on that one ... but, overall, I'd agree with Andy Green on this one.

    If you're looking for practicality, then you'll be a lot better served by learning good striking and grappling skills and not focusing on, as Andy so eloquently phrased it, "novelty" skills.

  9. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Hmm.....must admit u gotta point there, since more nerves exist in the bony areas, but I said that statement 'cause I used to start with that type of conditioning ie muscle tissues :D

    Same as u condition ur thigh n calf

  10. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    <Puts on one of those lovely suits he recently saw in Reign of Fire>

    Nope, not really. Although relatively safe (as compared to other methods) conditioning does exist.

    However the one knuckle punch and similar things are things that I've, uh, borrowed for my own uses. I wouldn't use them in a fight except as a distraction, but a two finger jab to the sternum stops people from stealing my chips in the Fox and Flowerpot quite nicely, without even really hurting anyone.
  11. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    <'ve been taught (specifically in Cimande Silat) to relaxe the hand and forearm muscles and strike with the blade of the bone.>
    this is the way Mike...
    the fleshy part of ur arm is already cushoined n it's more powerful than closer to wrists part of ur forearm

    <The end results can be pretty cool ... and, at least for forearms, pretty practical.>
    yea i can hit pertty hard on poles/trees with my forearms, i first did conditioning for first 2-3 yrs but it all started with mild conditioning of body parts, so after 3 yrs i tried tree/poles(again mildly then as time passes by increasing power)...
    tho i havn't done any singly knuckle conditioning(as i hav busted mine already before MA) i tend to use palm, knife hands n pheonix hand types.
    better use hard part for softer ones n softer parts for harder ones in fighting/sparring
  12. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    one thing more conditioning 3-4 y rs back was my daily routine(without a single day miss) n now i do it when i just feel like it...
    sometimes don't even do it for months.
    i presonally perfer to do this till some limits..
  13. JediMasterChris

    JediMasterChris Columbo

    How long should a person condition daily? 5 minutes? 2 hours? :confused:
  14. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Personally I recommend a grand total of 0 minutes wasted on conditioning, and at least five minutes a day spent practicing your technique.
  15. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I'd be a little kinder than that, as none of us have '0' free time to try new things out.

    The benefit of conditioning, however you do it, is purely psychological. Like being afraid to hit someone full force in case you hurt your hand!
    It's a confidence thing, and something for a rainy day.
  16. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    I was reading some old post and you guys sound funny. I have been conditioning my phoenix eye (1 knuckle fist) and contrary to what you guys say conditioning is going very good for me. I started by punching an iron palm bag 25x each hand for about 2 weeks. Then 50x times each hand and so on every 2 weeks. I try to hit with atleast half power, but usually I hit with about 80%.

    For those of you that said conditioning is useless and damaging, you are wrong and right. Conditioning is vital to any real self defense b/c when fighting you will get hit in weird places or bump something during a struggle or fall. What about all the dings and stuff that happens when you train? It's just like punching a heavy bag or kicking one, what do you do that for? To CONDITION YOUR ATTACKING LIMBS. If you didn't do this you could not kick someone or punch them with all you might and not injure youself.

    Now for those who said it is damaging you are correct, but to what degree of damage. When you condition wrong by taking on too much too sonn you are bound to get injured. You must learn your limits and then and only then will you be able to struture a conditioning process. Everybody is different so limits will vary. This not about speed, that's what a speed bag is for, this about form, breathing, concentration and turning flesh into steel (the right & long way. you are damaging whatever you are using to strike but to a minor degree. You need to let your body heal and use dit da jow. Too much rest is better than not enough. My hands are getting firmer and harder, ILOVE IT.

    I feel that without this strike in your arsenal you lack one of the most vital weapons in real life self defense. I hit my friends with the strike lightly and they say it hurts so I figure if I can hit with it at 1/4 strength now in a year I will be able to hit with atleast 80%. Then I might be able to understand the old Kara te saying of, "One strike One kill".

    If you don't understand the power of this strike then let someone push on any spot on your body with a one knuckle fist then do the same with the fist knuckles you usually strike with, then another with the whole fist. See what I mean? Now imagine if your fist was conditioned to withstand the abuse of a full force strike.

  17. minimal

    minimal New Member

    It is important to condition your hands and feet, and attacking limbs, and the rest of your body. If you are likely to use a one finger punch or anything similer you should definitely condition, as if you miss those vulnerable targets which require little conditioning against and hit a jaw or elbow instead you could break something, the less conditioning the more likely.
    Myself I would choose other techniques, although I'll jab four bent fingers into a throat straight or in a chop. But then, I'm new and not very good.
    I believe that you are best with a generic and intuitive strike like a chop, spear, or punch, and if you get that into a throat you can snatch it back and likely succeed in a second attack near the first, or into the opponents hand when they grab their throat. But the strike will be faster than if the artist is tensing for a one-finger punch, IMHO, and more likely to get in and less likely to get snagged on the way out. Just my $.02. For some people it might be the right strike and they might find them easy to place and use...
    Don't neglect to condition your fists with punches and chops, and your shins and forearms. The forearms should be conditioned, bony and fleshy bits. Both will be used in blocking, intentionally and otherwise, and I would imagine someone thinking about a one finger punch would be more likely to block a strike that evade it, sidestep it, or stick to it.
  18. edges

    edges Valued Member

    I also recomend the iron palm bag for all hand conditioning. For those of you not familiar it is a small bag (around 6 inches square) filled with either chick peas, sand, gravel or small stones.

    This is then placed on a bench around waist height and you begin to strike it LIGHTLY with whatever weapon you wish to work.

    You must be consistant and start slow and soft, eventually you will hit a little harder, patience is required.

    Augustine Fong (Wing Chun) features this type of training in one of his videos, well worth a look.

    As mentioned apply Dit Da Jow before and after, but tiger balm or deep heat also help, as does soaking the hands in hot water. The point being to get fresh blood flow into the damaged tissues to promote repair.

    As for the practicality of the single knuckle, it really is a great bit of kit. It is stronger and more durable than a finger strike, and if it does hit a hard target it is able to collapse forming a full fist strike. However accuracy is important.
  19. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    About time someone else realizes that a one knuckle punch won't cause you to break or dislocate your finger. It is damn near impossible if the hand posture is correct. You should also do some simple hand exercises like holding your hands above your head and shake them as if you are shaking water off your hands and do wrist circles with them in this same postion as well as open and closed fists positions. These are said to help get the old blood out. Do they work some say yeah others say nay...who's right.....the person with iron hands :)

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