ptkalista's thoughts on PTK, open challenges, etc.

I assure you , thats not DeCampo.

 

WARNING: :topic:
WTH edited slightly are you on mate,
can you not see the website (bottom right corner)that photo was taken from.
or are you going to accuse Pat O'Malley someone in your own words is respected in the FMA community to be a master of photo shop.
This would say you are saying Pat is being dishonest.
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously ptkalista.
your theoy re: the blade vs stick is all good,but must you throw it down in everyones face in just about every post you make??
It's people like you that have made me choose to post less frequently on MAP.

*Sorry Stuart for my off topic ramble*

 

I do not really know any European PT Kalistas and only a few in the U.S. Maybe they are training for a WEKAF event. Make no mistake the open invitation in Manila for February 2008 is with no protective gear. It has been every year and every year no one shows. I wonder why?

 

Well.. if you KNEW the Europ. PT guys you would know they're not training for WEKAF and I cant believe you wouldnt know Uli if you were involved in Pekiti Tirsia at all. (And the Picture is from his website.)

Honestly, the only one here disrespecting GT Gaje and Pekiti Tirsia with his behavior is you. Its kinda sad to see such narrow-minded person ruining the rep of a style.

 

they're pekiti europe. i ripped that pic off of guro uli's website.

 

so you're saying that guro uli isn't pekiti? or that that guro uli isn't a kalista?

 

"The Blade is the Answer to Disrespect"

"You cannot afford to disrespect me..."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gjbf50Af0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gjbf50Af0[/ame]

 

how about answering my questions.

 

I do not think that somene,is afraid of the blade in all FMA WHEN THEY CONFRONT IN THE REAL LIFE SITUATION?

 

PTKalista.

If you do not stop dragging every thread you post in off topic with your pointless diatribe, then you will be given a 3-day ban from the site.

How about actually trying to enage people in discussion, rather than saying 'the stick is round, the blade is flat' every second post.

What about telling us where and with who you train with?

 

It is you who said it, not me.

Actually, I was refering to YOU.

I was looking for the relevant post where you name-dropped Jasper Ocampo, Jay Bataclan & Rommel Tortal but you have obviously modified that post. Hmmm.

Why hide behind GT Gaje or the PTK seniors after issuing an open challenge? It would be better if you posted YOUR real name & photo if you are so keen in meeting people in a blade duel. You show real balls that way. Good luck.

Anyway, I am through talking with you. I don't intend to escalate this into a ****ing match. :topic:

What I would like to do is go steer the discussion back to the topic. I have my own ideas about some of the theories pushed by the authors. In general, though, I highly commend the book as a lot of research & hard work was put into it. I beleive the authors have integrity as researchers & martial artists.

Over the issue of kali, for example, they have looked in several places, including Muslim Mindanao, & couldn't find any. If there is Kali, then one should provide better evidence (historical document, oral tradition, archaeology, etc) than just the word of a teacher. One can be an excellent martial artist but a lousy historian. I say this as a matter of fact & not to disrespect any specific person.

 

Post is still there and has not been modified in any way it is quoted directly from GT Gaje Jr. If everyone wants we can rename it an open invitation instead of an open challenge. Every year PTK offers this invitation in the Philippines and every year no group shows.

Once I become more senior I do plan to become one of the guardians in PTK and represent them with blade or stick, but I still have much to learn in this advance technology of the blade.

You can PM me your personal info and maybe we can arrange a meet or we can meet in Manila in 2008?

This is the main problem here, these so called researchers who are already bias never talked to the people who are the true Kali inheritors. They know the true Kali is not in history books, they know it was never recorded by the Spanish because they were the enemy. Of course there is no Kali in books. So why write a book to disrespect Kali and the people who have brought this technology from the indigenous fighting culture? They should just say Salamat Po (Thank you). If you are ready to disrespect the true Kali then you have to stand up and prove it, not in debating but in true fighting with stick or blade. If we are lawyers then we will debate until our mouths bleed but we are not, that is why we have Manila on Feb 2008. :woo:

Before this open 'invitation' was in Bacolod every year, but maybe too many became fearful so now it is in Manila accessable to everyone in Philippines and Abroad. :woo:

 

I do agree with you, sir, regarding the term "Kali", i may not be a linguistic expert with the Philippines having so many dialects, "Kali", "Escrima", and "Arnis" are more of a dialect/language "preference" based on where you are from. I was born and raised in Mindanao and would use "escrima" automatically, when referring to stickfighting without thinking. Who's a better fighter is not really an issue. You should watch how filipino non-martial artist or even filipino martial artist unfamiliar with stickifighting, laugh at some of the words being used in FMA or such as, "sayaw", "abaniko", pang-ilog", and how ignorance sometimes ruins our reputation.

 

I just hope someone takes the time to teach you some good behavior on the way... and maybe you even learn to think on your own instead of repeating everything you were ever told as if its the one and only truth.

Again, pls ask the more senior Pekiti Tirsia members when the name was changed to KALI and then check when GT Gaje was in the US for the first time and met Guro Inosanto, who used the word Kali first and is saying himself he was never in the Philippines.

After that you might wanna try to travel through the PI and see if you can find anyone who uses the term Kali. But I guess that would be quite a big undertaking so.. WHY DONT YOU READ A BOOK BY 2 PERSONS WHO ACTUALLY SPENT TIME RESEARCHING THE MATTER?

Or ask some of the early members (Guro McGraths time) why there are techniques in the older curriculum that involve grabbing both ends of the stick. - Thats surely not done with a blade, is it?

Anyway, I actually dont think you'll stick to FMA very long or ever become what you want - senior in the art of Pekiti Tirsia. That would involve thinking on your own of which you're obviously not capable yet...

But hey, at least I can kill some time between training-sessions reading your funny posts.

 

Are you saying the GT Gaje Jr. is a liar? You can talk to him in person or show in Manila in February 2008. You can debate in person, not with books or theories.

Who are these 2 PERSONS and what are their credentials? Have they fought the true Kalistas? Do they really know about the true Kali? Did they talk to GT Gaje Jr. himself? I could write a book and say I traveled all over the world and found Escrima in the jungles of the Congo. Should you believe me? They should only write about Cebu but not about the true Kali. That is the main issue here.

1 year in PTK is like 80 years in Modern Arnis, Doce Pares or De Campo. If you do not believe in this then show in Manila. PM me your contact info and I will personally pick you up at Ninoy Aquino Int'l Airport in Manila on February 2008. There is a very easy solution to this debate in the book. Why do we have to waste our time debating like this when we can test our technologies modern against the ancient?

 

No, I'm not. But I think that GT Gaje is not nearly as narrow-minded as you are.

They are a lot longer involved in FMA then you are, quite sure about that. And I wouldnt be so sure they dont know GT Gaje. BUT as good as GT Gaje is, neither he nor Pekiti Tirsia are the oldest styles in Visayas, be it Cebu or Negros. Why are you so sure nobody else knows anything about FMA?
And yes, of course you could write a book. Like a comic you mean? C'mon, those two guys are well-known and well-respected. They may not have a big organisation like Pekiti Tirsia, but that doesnt necessarily mean GT Gaje is that much senior to them when it comes to FMA.

See, now you're just talking plain crap. First of all, its the Fighter not the Style. (Ask your trainer about it.) Second of all, styles like DeCampo have proven themselves long before you even knew what FMA is.

Now you have to understand one thing. I have high respect for PT and GT Gaje. I actually wanted to meet with Master Rommel in Manila 2 months ago but it didnt work out 'cause of sheduling-problems. And I know quite a few PT-Guys, some of them a lot more senior then you I think.

I dont have to fight PT-guys to know they're good, and I dont want to fight the Manila Pitbulls because I know how they train. (Still I will visit them when I'm back in Manila next year.)

The point is, that YOU dont know what you're talking about. YOU talk as if you know the whole truth on earth, you repeat what other ppl with more knowledge said without even understanding it. YOU are disrespectfull to ppl who deserve a lot better and YOU hurt the reputation of PT with your actions.

I dont agree with everything that is written in books - or in Forums, no matter who wrote it. But I have the highest respect for ppl who have proven themselves no matter how, and that of course includes GT Gaje and PT. I may not agree with the 'All blade all the time' statement, and I'm very sceptical when it comes to the word 'Kali', but that are my personal opinions. I dont tell anyone what to believe or not to believe, and for sure dont say my opinion is the only truth out there. But I've yet to meet a FMA-Master who wouldnt respect different opinions and I dont think the senior PT guys would mind my opinions - they got better things to do. You on the other hand are disrespectfull.. and that doesnt help anyone.

If anyone should fight, it would be you - against all those styles and persons you think of as no real fighters. Why dont you do it? I'm sure you'll learn something. (Same way your idol, GT Gaje, did train with other styles...)


In the end it doesnt matter that much what style you trained - some may make you a warrior a little faster, some may have another main focus, but if you're not a fighter, the best style doesnt help... and if you're a fighter, you'll be able to fight no matter what style you learn.

Something you'll learn some day.

Ps: Who are the TRUE Kalista? I just spent several months training almost daily in different parts of the Philippines.. who are those true Kalistas? Is it only the PT Guys? And everyone else is doing 'wrong' FMA?

Pps:

Hmm..you dont even know what I train

 

I asked you to PM me so we can arrange a meeting in Feb 2008 in Manila. Only you and RedBagani have personally insulted me, others just disagree with me. So PM me. And yes you are being very disrespectful towards GT Gaje Jr. implying that he is lying and now you are saying he trained in other styles which is not true. Ask him yourself. But we know you will not.

These 'guys' are unknowns except for this book. If they want to disrespect GT Gaje Jr. are they willing to stand up for it? or are they just going to write and enjoy the money for their 'research' without really understanding the true Kali.

Is this book an actually attack on Kali by De Campo or are these '2 guys' just researchers who are not even warriors? Because if they have a problem with Kali there is a solution for this. Maybe they just like to hide.

Ask GT Gaje Jr. he will assist you in this research but if you only read 'Cebuano Eskrima' then you will not find the very few Kalistas left. They do not live in cities.

 

Ok.. my second-last post in this stupid thread.

In February I've to work, but if you want to meet me, I'll be back in June 2008 for probably 9 months. You can find me at the FMA-Forum picknicks, you can talk to me, you can train with me.. you can drink SanMiguel with me. But pls not if you're in real-life the same as here.

I disagree with some his statements, thats my personal opinion and none of your business. If you think thats me calling him a lyer, then I'm sorry .. I hope he doesnt take it that way. But who are you to tell me what to believe and what not? As for training with other styles, I'll post some pictures of a young GT Gaje training with Doce Pares and Guro Jafre tomorrow. Have them on another computer. Again you've proven that you dont know what you're talking about.

But here just for you a quote from GT Gaje.

If you study with me you can distinguish my training with other styles. I am a Pekiti-Tirsia.If I ever studied with other people then I should have adopted the Japanese materials in my system. That is the reason that you have to meet me face to face so that I can make a distinction for your personal satisfaction. If you are looking for the truth face me. If I have a formal training with anyone then I won't hesitate to put him into my biodata. I have exchanged techniques with several old Kali men in a very limited meetings it doesn't mean I studied with them or adopted their style. When I exchanged techniques, I study the weakness of that style.

[..]

So far about Eddie Jafre. Jafre was with me in New York. I brought him into the world of being recognized in Pencak Silat If you understand the Malay culture then you understand the two countries with similar culture that no one claims the best more to be proven in the field of combat who has the best training. We don't pirate techniques, we compliments because Filipino and Indonesian have the same Malayan race.

The way I read it, he says he did train/fight with other styles. He exchanged to study weaknesses. Thats exactly what a lot of ppl do when they go around .. see what others do and how you can beat it.
You're just like a little child that thinks someone is insulting his mummi. Dont you get it? I respect your GT ... I just dont respect you and the way you post here.

The only one who says the book is an attack on Pekiti Tirsia and disrespectfull against GT Gaje is YOU. Probably 'cause you DIDNT read it.

As I said, I just was in the PI for 5 months doing nothing but FMA. I read most of the books and articles about FMA. I met a lot of the old Masters and Grandmasters in Citys and in the Provinces. I asked you who those 'true Kalistas' are, you didnt answer.. maybe do your homework next time ?!

 

I drink Red Horse, but I will only be back in Manila for the February 2008 celebrations and tournaments.

Yes, I have too seen these pictures but training and observing and studying the weakness of these 'escrima' and 'arnis' arts are very different things. This is why he can say his grandfather's technology is the best.

I know about this book, and this is the reason I have to say that if you do not believe or doubt the true Kali then prove it in Manila. Will these '2 guys' show, I personally know they will not because one is actually on youtube and belief me he would cry if he showed in Manila.

My humble answer is talk to GT himself. If you have seen 'Kali means to Scrape' you saw some of them. I know but I want you to meet GT Gaje Jr. himself so you will no more doubt the true Kali.

I respect you if you respect me. But, "you cannot afford to disrespect me"

You might think this is madness, but...

 

You tell people they are insulting PTK when they are not and then you say this??

Now I find that insulting and totally disrespectfull to all FMAers.

Best regards

Pat