Proven History of Christianity

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Moi, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Not often I start a thread in here.

    So what is true about the New Testament. Any bits of it actually real? The census etc: anything independent?

    There must have been scientific studies on it.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I believe there is reference in Suetonius to some events pertaining to Jesus
  3. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    So as least we possibly have the chief suspect. It's a big start
  4. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's difficult to say, the Census for example only appears in the Gospel of Luke, which has never been believed to be a primary source. Josephus describes the census as taking place in 6-7CE, but Josephus was writing 50+ years after the event, so it's possible that his dates are wrong, or that people had simply forgotten a census 10 years beforehand. Alternatively Luke may have used the cultural memory of the census as a construct to explain the birth in Bethlehem.
    The big problem is that the bible was written in a literary tradition that placed essential truth above historical accurracy (which is why people go so drastically wrong when they try to interpret single passages without context). Therefore there's little attempt to link events to a historical timeline. Someone born at the end of the reign of Herod the Great would have been in their early thirties during the govenership of Pontius Pilate, which gives a reasonable setting, but beyond that we're talking about the kind of thing that wasn't that interesting to Roman historians (who were notoriusly inaccurrate anyway), so independant primary evidence is scarce.
  5. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    From what I've read, historians are pretty sure there really was a guy named Jesus (Yashua in Hebrew) who had a pretty big following (big enough to be recorded by historians) and who was executed by the Romans. Beyond that, it's all faith.

    Sadly, the Bible itself has no primary sources on Jesus to go on except perhaps the Gospel of John.
  6. rivend

    rivend Valued Member

    Archaeologically they claim some locations can be verified as fact in regards to events that took place.Not that the actual event took place just that there was actual location or city there at the time of the event.
  7. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you can always write after the fact that something happened. just because bethlehem exists, doesn't mean god was born there.
  8. rivend

    rivend Valued Member

  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i'm agreeing with you
  10. rivend

    rivend Valued Member

    Sorry I wasn't sure where you were going with this :)
  11. rivend

    rivend Valued Member

    Moi if you are interested and want a different perspective on the subject the book...Jesus Last Of The Pharaohs by Ralph Ellis is a totally different approach to the subject.If you can find a short summary of the book online it's well worth checking it out.
    This has some facts that tend to attempt to clarify what may actually have taken place but at best it's speculation and impossible to document.
  12. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I think he'd get more readers if he titled it "Jesus: Last of the Jedi".
  13. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    'Jesus was a ninjer' I'd buy that.
  14. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Is OK I'm over it now. Just wondering that's all, looks like it might be a short book
  15. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    I'm more of an old testament guy, fire and brimstone, eye for an eye, wrath of God stuff. Its a little more black and white, kind of like Clint Eastwood movies. The bad guys gets all blown to heck in the end.....Never seen anyone turned to salt though, that might be cool.

    I think I need to stop reading map whilst I'm drinking tequila.....
  16. Estrix

    Estrix Valued Member

    As has been mentioned, the census probably happened. However the census that was recorded near the time was a local one and did not require a return to your home town (that's just silly).

    The possibility exists that there was a "star" in the east. However it's pure theory as to it being either Haleys Comet, or a supernova or other such phenomena.

    It's also quite likely that some religious leaders were crucified. Following the Roman occupation there appears to have been a wave of religious prophets etc as it was believed that the end times where upon them (especially after the destruction of the Temple).

    The last one I can think of in the NT is that there was a governor (Prefect) called Pontius Pilate
  17. illumin7

    illumin7 Valued Member

    With regards to a star in the east:

    The star of which they speak of Sirius/Ast/Isis/Mary/Sofia the dogstar, the three wise men represent the 3 stars that make up Orions/Asar/Osiris belt.

    If you trace the stars of orions belt it clearly points towards Sirius.


    Well visible parts of the constellation anyway as there are numerous stars within it, although only seven are clearly visible.

    Amos 5:8

    "Seek he who maketh the seven stars of Orion"

    Confusion abounds when they take allegorical stories and teaching methods and mix them with historical information and events.

  18. Estrix

    Estrix Valued Member

    Ah that's cool about the star. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Regards the wise men. It came up on QI the other night - in the Bible it just says wise men, not 3 wise men. They were wise men from the east bearing gifts. However there were three gifts. Three men, and the names attached (Melkior, Belthazar and the other dude) are all part of later additions.
  19. illumin7

    illumin7 Valued Member

    The key is in the number 3 the 3 gifts being the 3 stars if you pay close attention to what is being said with regards to Orion, it wouldn't be stated otherwise, I know some might groan at that fact but it's quite interesting when you dig through any ancient scriptures religious or otherwise they have a thing for numbers and allegory.

    Also due to Rome, certain parts were removed and the re-inserted at certain times to suit whatever needs that had to be met.

    Like the book of Revelation is a recent addition late 19th century I think.
  20. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    But of course, nowhere in the bible does it say that the number of the wise men was 3.

    Looks like I was beaten.

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