Discussion in 'Karate' started by Melanie, Feb 24, 2002.
Look here under: "Are you interested in rank?"
we must start over, now that I have humbled myself.
Yes I will admit I can be very defensive and obnoxious. This b/c I believe in what I practice and am very enthusiastic about self defense. Not MA but self defense. Maybe we started on the wrong foot. Let me rephrase I agree with what you said about the hit PP takes more than striking with a PE. I will say that if one is struck with a PE then they will more tyhan likely feel some of the worst pain thinkable. I don't have proof for people being killed by a PE. The only reason I said that stuff about using stats is b/c they are nowhere near accurate. In one city violence might be very low and another very high so two people in those cities might train different according to their environment. yes I did come out of the gates swinging, just like in life. I feel a threat dismantle it, as fast & hard as possible. I thought you were trying to be a ass. MISCOMMUNICATION. The issues with be taken seriously a kinda funny. Most people don't cause I'm smart and wear glasses. Those that push me, get struck. Not that I'm abully or anything I just can't afford to be ran over like a chump. I have too much respect for myself.
I have alot to explain so you might understand me a little better. I have to go to work now, it sucks. I would love to go to a real hard school, I mean a school that is very physical. Yet not outdated or expensive. I can't push more that $50/month.
About the people I teach that's my girlfriend and some other friends. I don't actually teach, but we all practice together, or atleast we used to. That stuff about freezing up we practice things aimed at that. oh yeah I'm 24.
You might consider working on that... Be it on the internet in writing or in person verbally, being defensive and obnoxious won't earn you much in the way of respect from anyone. One of the differences between simple self defense and martial art training is that in the latter control and discipline are developed. Control and discipline allow your techniques to land much more telling blows because you are in greater control of what you throw. Control and discipline allow your responses to be more appropriate to the threat encountered.
No maybe about it... I asked questions, you attacked me.
Well, while I'll agree that a phoenix eye fist is a very pinpoint technique and can cause a great deal of discomfort, the worst strike I have ever felt was a regular ol' punch without any special digital technique, and it wasn't directed against a specific pressure point either.
And while I agree with you, the statistics provided for criminal encounters typically take this into effect... Different cities will break them down by city, by district, etc., while national stats deal with national averages. That doesn't discount the value that statistical study provides to someone attempting to evaluate their training in light of possible threats...
Well, like I said above, that kind of attitude may not get you far in life. You've made it this long, sure, but age and the natural maturation process tends to refine that kind of thinking out of you. Young people typically have this kind of confrontational attitude - they can afford to, they're young and heal quickly... Us old farts can't rely on that kind of "in your face" behavior - I'm old and don't want a prolonged fight!
Miscommunication happens all the time on the internet. If I wasn't familiar with that I wouldn't still be talking with you about it...
What do you mean by "very physical?" Do you want a workout, or are you talking about hard contact? There is a difference... I've seen classes where the training was very grueling, but nobody got hit during class, ever. I've also been to classes where exercise simply wasn't part of training (you do that on your own time), but people were getting dropped with punches and kicks all night long.
Which one are you talking about?
I'm not going to lose any sleep if you are taking offense at questions I ask and things I say, believe me. You will do whatever you want to do, however you want to do it. But if a person posts something in a public forum on the internet, he/she should be fully prepared to face whatever scathing commentary may be fired at them from whatever corner of the internet it may be fired from...
That having been said...
If you are really interested in good training, email me at email@example.com. I'd be happy to help put you in touch with good people and good information. But I won't be chasing you down... If your cup is nice and full and you know enough as is, fine. Hope you and your friends make it work out for you in the end. If you are interested in keeping your mind open and learning more than you already know, email me... I won't be hunting you down, though, to cram the info down your throat.
Enjoy. Hope you have a good day at work.
There are Yiliquan people in Bellevue? I'd like to meet them... (being in Bellevue myself)
I talked to an American Kenpo guy who recently has moved to Bellevue, too, but he only seemed interested in taking on paying students, not so much in just working out. At lest that's what I assumed when he mostly stopped communicating with me after I told him I wasn;t looking for a teacher but more of a friend to practice with.
I've met GN in person. By an odd coincidence (that is, I never met him until MAP) we live about 3 blocks from each other. In person he is soft spoken and smiling. Of course some peolpe think I'm an a$$ too so take my opinion for what it is worth LOL
GoatNips - I've had some friends from my school over to do some sparring and technique practice and we are trying to get together more often. I will be sure to contact you next time we are doing it. If you drive by and see us in the front yard with the gloves on, stop and say hi! We go pretty hard I'm sure you won't be disappointed :woo:
When i said physical I meant as in contact not a Jane Fonda workout. I don't mean to come across as a young punk b/c I am far from that. I spent most of my 24 years in the streets or locked up, for dumb decisions I am suffering for now. I went to prison for 3 years when I was 18. I used to live in the projects of San Diego. NONE of this makes me tough or cool nor do expect anybody to give me respect for these, BUT being in these situations made me think about what criteria I am looking for in a style of self defense.
I like the one knuckle punch b/c it is very damaging, more damaging than a full fist. I have been in more multiple attacker situations than 1 on 1 confrontations, not that I was always innocent, but most of the time I was. Alot of people can take a full fist strike and keep on ticking but to take a PE takes a damn near indestructible person.
If you are being attacked by 3 people the only techs you can use are lethal ones (in my opinion). You won't have enough time to duke it out with each attacker, so you maximize your techs so that you get the one strike one kill philosophy. It would be hopeful that you would only need 3 strikes to end the situation.
Basically what I am looking for is an art that can be learned very quickly. I don't see any purpose in practicing an art that takes 6 months to learn anything that will save my ass. An art that has lethal techs so that I can effectively defend myself against being jumped. NONE of that jumping around BS or that flowery stuff either. I'm into self defense not balet. No block then strike b/c that waste time and energy and both are important when you are being mugged or raped. Deflection and striking at the sametime is the best to me. I practiced Wing Chun for a little while and I love all of it except the mobility is there. Everything else is perfect.
They are at the Bellevue community center (I think) around 84th and Harrison-ish.
Well, I can't say how the Yili folks in Bellevue will greet you... If you are looking for someone to practice with in general, they may or may not be interested. If you are looking to study Yili, they'll certainly welcome you (I'd hope, anyway).
They hold a number of seminars on things like Iron Palm training, aspects of Yiliquan (unarmed and armed seminars), etc., also. That's a good way to meet up with them on a one-time basis to get to know folks. Typically the seminars are hosted by the Bellevue group and they bring our teacher up from Iowa (where he is living in semi-retirement) to present the seminar.
I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige you... Tell them I said hi.
As for an art that is easily learned... Well, Yili is a self-paced art. You learn it as fast as you train it. I took the better part of 13 years earning my black sash (I trained, but was never in a hurry), though we have had folks earn one in as little as 3 or 4 years (they trained like maniacs, though). You can apply the basics within a few months depending on how much you train, but it is certainly an art you can spend the rest of your life learning about and refining.
I've studied Modern Arnis, Shuri-te Ha Karate-do, Aikido and Judo in addition to Yiliquan, and of them all (though I absolutely love Judo) Yiliquan is the best thing I've ever been exposed to (and I've done quite a bit of "crosstraining" with people from other arts, like Kyokushin, JKD, Kali, TKD, Wing Chun, Goju-ryu, Isshin-ryu and others).
"I don't see any purpose in practicing an art that takes 6 months to learn anything that will save my ass"
Ever heard of muscle memory? you have to practice things over and over and over and over before they become instinct. it will take hundreds if not thousands of hours of GOOD training, full contact sparring, and constant drilling before you are considered "good". just because you know how to hit someone in a vital spot because someone showed you once doesnt mean you can apply it when the adrenalin is flowing.
anyway. if you want immediately effective arts, try something like judo or BJJ. after only a couple of months of judo I could throw around my heavier and stronger friends with ease, and tie them into pretzels on the ground while they flailed like a fish. for striking, boxing is your best bet. while I believe that thai boxing is more effective i nthe long run because you have more weapons, boxing is an excellent art for learning how to put someone down very quickly, and can be learnt faster than most other arts.
great post except for the dumbass part.
ah... sorry about that, mods please dont ban me again. it wont let me go back and edit it. im not used to such restrictions of free speech
I edited it, get used to the restrictions!
Personally, I found it much harder to learn grappling skills in judo, but that's just me. You might be different.
Back on topic- MOST pressure point stuff is a waste of time. But experimenting with the larger, more accessible ones could be useful for grappling. Not striking.
much harder in comparison to another art, or just in general?
In comparison to the karate I do
I read a pretty decent book : Chin-na in Groundfighting. It covers a lot of PP usage in grappling and Chin-na applications.
how can I get in touch with them?
does everyone think they should get paid to practice <sigh> whatever happened to just having fun with it... or did anyone ever do that?
It has nothing to do with free speech dude. You are free to express your views. Just do so without insulting anyone.
Email me and I'll forward it on to the head instructor guy (my kids' godfather as a matter of fact).
Hope it works out for you. Just out of curiosity, what do you know about Yiliquan? It seemed you were surprised we had folks in Bellevue...
Pressure points can be used whilst vertical or horizontal. Some only present themselves for striking when you are at an odd angle to your opponent anyway.
Chin na (which is just a fancy way to refer to joint locks and chokes) can similarly be used just as equally effectively whether upright and standing, or on the ground.
I started playing Judo with a good friend of mine, and came to the conclusion (duh) that it is essentially the same "game" as standup striking and locking, except with an additional two "hands" (your feet) and the inclusion of a plane of movement that isn't normally considered during standup work.
Bellevue is a small place, and I thought I was aware of all the MA groups in this little town... Omaha, nearby, is bigger and ther are lots of MA groups there that I know nothing about, but you were so specific about Bellevue that it surprised me a little
but, technically, 84th & Harrison isn't Bellevue. Anyone else on this board who cares about that, please raise your hand LOL It's Ralston.
I don't know anything at all about Yiliquan. I'm going to go read about it now, though. Look for an email soon...
edit: matt, the forum says you don;t want to receive emails. So you email me first!
I grew up in Omaha, born and raised in South O. I went to Bryan Junior and Senior High, elementary at Pawnee...
I started training in Yiliquan in 1985 on 72nd and Maple (I think there is a Rent to Own store there now), and the school later moved up to Benson.
I went to University of No Opportunity (West Dodge High for those in the know) for a short time, and spent a number of years working at Bergan Mercy Hospital...
Omaha all the way, baby...
Actually, we were both incorrect... While 84th and Harrison is near the Ralston border, I don't think Ralston begins until 2 or 3 traffic lights further north... 84th and Harrison is actually Papillion, and I think they are holding classes at the Papillion Community Center...
Where are you reading about it? I don't think we have anything on our website that talks about it much... You can go over to www.cyberkwoon.com, look in their "about styles" section under "Y" and there should be a brief article I wrote for them once upon a time...
Separate names with a comma.