GOT IT! I'll check that out! As for the video, I'll make it happen one way or another. My wife and daughter are going to be there so I can at least get Lexi to take a video for me.
Hello all, OK, this may seem a bit negative, but I am going to raise some issues. Mikey, please take this as constructive, and not just being negative, but... Why are you doing something you are not trained to do??? Are they not teaching you some martial skills? Even with a knee issue, grab a chair, pull it to the middle of the demo area and do technique! That makes sense. And a nak bop demo? Why? Do you really need to prove that gravity is still working? Now, Korea Hapkido Federation, hmmm, so many issues. I don't want to go into all the problems, but here in Illinois, the schools that are listed spent several years issueing fake KHF certificates, they are a yong mu do (not Hapkido) group, the KHF did finally accept them, not sure why, but to my knowledge the phoney certs were not replaced. Unfortunately, the KHF does not seem to have any ability to control their logo. The organization took a huge hit in 2002 when a huge fraud brought down the entire top tier of the organization. And to me, allowing a group that issued fake certs, and the fact that they are not a Hapkido group, into the organization casts serious doubt about the credibility of the KHF in general. Now, as a side note, your school is not listed in either the English or any Korean site. So take that for what it is. If you pay for certification, it had better be the real deal. Again I would do something I was trained in...as a side note, when I visited the late GM Han, Bong Soo in 1982, I showed him pictures of me breaking wood and concrete, he asked me what purpose it served? I said for demos, he said that it was not part of Hapkido, and not to do it again...I haven't since then... Hope this didn't seem too negative, but wanted you to know.
You've shot straight with me since we first connected here on the Forum. I'd like to return the favor. One of the earliest memories I have of my Hapkido career was training as part of the "elite" demo team for Hyun's Hapkido. This goes back to about 1986. That Winter we did a demo and a fellow team member attacked with a DAN BONG and was thrown----landing on the DAN BONG. Proof of the existence of God is that my team member was not seriously injured for life. From that day forward I promised myself that in no way, shape or form was I ever to let myself be some kind of "trained monkey" for somebody else. If you honestly feel that you would like to show your level of ability---- in an art you have studied and practiced--- then do it.....but on YOUR terms, not somebody elses. I've seen people torn-up in Martial Arts classes and seminars. My own late teacher trashed both of my rotator cuffs on separate occassions and I torn a ligament training for a demo only to have it immediately reinjured at a seminar weeks later. Its NOT worth it. If something happens...well ....everyone is going to be real sorry. That and a couple of bucks will get you a small STARBUCKS anywhere in Chicago. Add to that the fact that you will feel like a complete sap for allowing yourself to be "played". I say again...."its NOT worth it". Best Wishes, Bruce
Fair enough but what I dont think you get is I think it'll be fun. In fact I'm sure I said that someplace. I've always been interested in power breaking and this is a chance to give it a go. They're not going to leave me to figure it out on my own. If its a go we'll train for it. To think they're just going to expect me to walk in there and break a ton of board without any training is a bit niave I feel. I can't just walk into the room and do a technique because thats not the purpose of the tourney, nor is that an "event" that can be competed in. Nakbup is part of the breaking event. Typically we perform flying nakbup over a group of people and then execute several breaking techniques. I dont see the problem with it. In fact, again, I find it enjoyable. Why is that bad?
Wow. So you're against doing what you're asked to do in class then? I should do what I want, on my terms and not be a trained monkey so then listening to my instructors, following orders, doing what I'm told is something I better stop doing? We're ALL trained monkeys as long as we follow someone elses directions and seek their approval, Bruce. Being a martial artist at my level is akin, in my mind, to being an E-4 or E-5 in the military. I can make some decisions provided they are within the scope of my rank, but I still have to follow orders and do my part in the greater scheme. That part is to learn and do as I'm told. Period. I wasn't ORDERED to do power breaking. I'm sure I posted at one point that I ASKED about it. I inquired about power breaking last september after the tourney. Now that its come up again, and I have the knee, my instructor mentioned it after I inquired whether or not I'd be able to participate in the tourney this year. He's offering it as an option for me based on MY request. If that makes me a trained monkey then I'm really good with that. If there were a few more people in this world that did what they were told I think this world wouldnt suck as much as it does, Bruce.
Thanks, Mikey....actually that was the point that I was wanting to make. If you are doing something because you are making a free choice to do it, you will probably do a great job and have fun doing it. If you are doing it because someone is preasuring you into doing it, then I can easily imagine something ontward happening. Where things go awry are those times when people are guilt-tripped into going against their better judgement. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
You called it a TKD tourney with Hapkido people doing nakbup and forms....and you want to do power breaking....you didn't say that you were going to be trained for power breaking...if so, then would they not suggest what you should do? Its a "demo" so, why is doing techniques for a demo so strange? And as far as a"nakbop" demo, I don't see the point. Not being silly, but jumping up and doing a break fall just seems odd. Nakbop, as I understand it, is a training aid for being thrown...frankly, I just walk around objects, not jump over them... But if u can't demo Hapkido, I guess you don't have much choice.
LOL, this is one of the things I hate about the internet. I'm not getting the chance to demo HKD. I'm getting the chance to "demo" power breaking because I want to particake in the tourney and cant do normal breaking as set down in the tourney guidelines. They're giving me an opportunity to do something fun. That apparently is scorn worthy. Interesting. The only reason I'm calling it a demo is because no one else will be doing it. They're allowing me to do this due to my injury. I honestly dont get the issue you're having with it. I took for granted that it would be understood I'd be trained for this rather than just thrown to the lions, so to speak. Yes, I WANT to do power breaking and now they're going to try to give me that chance. I think thats GREAT. FWIW, I've watched Korean HKD demos with guys flying through the air doing the very same thing we do. Go tell them they're doing it wrong too. I'll wait here. Nakbup can be anything from simple rolling nakbup, or side nakbup to flying nakbup used in demos. The principles are the same. One's just a lot more fun than the other. Nakbup IS hapkido. I'm no expert on HKD but I can find a large number of HKD demos involving the exact kind of nakbup we're doing so, as I said, if you take exception to that, talk to them first. As far as suggesting what I do, they've given ME the choice to pick what I feel best at and we'll work at that. Again, I think thats great. I have many issues with my school, and thats something I've been open about. This is not one of them. This is something I find enjoyable, am excited to do AND is part of HKD. Maybe not the version YOU teach, but thats kind of a moot point, isnt it?
Again, I simply went on what you said. You said demo, you were looking for suggestions for power breaking, you didn't mention any training. If you want to test gravity, and yep there are lots of video of various schools doing the same thing (perhaps in lieu of actually doing technique), then that's good. As far as what I teach, my students learn and you nakbop as a function of training. But maybe that's not the case at all schools. But I do teach Hapkido, not gymnastics. Again, if you are enjoying your training, that's what is most important.
I think the implication - at least of my post - is that if you don't train in something and your school doesn't teach it as part of the curriculum then why would your school allow to do demonstrate it as indicative of their hapkido teachings? Not really a criticism of you, just food for thought really. I hope you have fun if you are allowed to go through with it.
Because its another aspect of breaking. It takes control, concentration and technique or else I smash my body to bits. I would think those things area part of every curriculum, no? I get what you're saying. If they walked up to me and said "Mistah Mike, you do power breaking for tournamen'. Go practice" I'd have monsterous issues with it. But without quoting the whole conversation I asked about my chances of doing something fun and challenging at the tourney this year and they said no, that its too risky on the knee with the BB test looming on the horizon. Then my instructor brought up power breaking, which I'D inquired about before, and said if I was still interested he'd see if we could swing that but treat it more as a demo rather than a straight competition event since no one else will be doing it. Hard to compete in a field of one. I apologize. I really do. I didnt think for a moment anyone would assume that simply because I didnt mention there was a plan in place for preparing me, that there WASNT one. I honestly never thought anyone would raise a single issue with it. I appreciate most of the comments here and the time it took to post them. In the future I will 1) limit the amount of complaining I do about my school and 2) be much more inclusive as to the details behind the things I post.
When I trained in Korea (IHF Hapkido), we did periodic demos to attract new students and we would do the fancy breakfalls (rolling, flying, flying + breaking, etc) as well as breaking demonstrations. We would do board breaking (with kicks/strikes... and sometimes we'd even add noisemakers to them!) and power breaks with stacks of concrete roof tiles. For the most part, it all went without a hitch (aside from a few bruises and one guy with a broken hand from improper form). Our instructor looked at it as a bit of fun and application of what we were doing. We had practiced the strikes on each other, in the air, on bags and pads, but he wanted to see if we could break things using those techniques (without hurting ourselves). As I wrote, for the most part, the answer was "yes". The master did hep us out with some tips and training prior to events. Granted, the fancy breakfalls and breaking wasn't the "whole" demo - we actually spent more time showing self defnse and such, but those sure were the events that generated the most "ooohs" and "ahhhhs" and brought in new students.
As an aside, I have never made any excuses for my school. In fact I tend to call to light anything I find that I disagree with not from a lack of respect for the school itself or the accomplishments of those teaching me, but rather because certain things dont process with me. Yet, I've found that over time quite a few of those things have worked out. I understand completely that the place I go may not teach things the same way that other places do and that the emphasis on things like flashy nakbup may not be in keeping with what some consider practical self defense. Fair enough. I doubt I'll ever have to leap over a man pyramid and smash some unruly board in the knots (get it? See what I did there?), but then again, there are a lot of things I'll probably never have to do. So why learn them? Why not? When I teach, these are things I'll address with my class. I'll put my own spin on what I've been taught and, hopefully, improve upon it. Not saying I'll create my own art or anything, but just a curriculum I feel comfortable to stamp my name on. So my take right now is simply to be involved in as much as I can as often as possible to expose myself to everything I can. My father always said "Knowledge can't hurt you half as much as a lack of knowledge can." and I believe that with all of my heart. It's better to learn something and not need it than need it and not know how to do it. I mean, lets be honest. Aside from competitive MMA students, or TKD players who hit the tourney circuit a lot, the vast majority of us will more than likely go through our lives never having to use any of what we've learned in anything more serious than a wrestling match with the spouse or a bit of goofing with our children. For most of us we study simply because we enjoy it, or as a source of exercise, or confidence. It's been said here numerous times, if we REALLY wanted a means of effective self defense this would be a firearms forum. So I say, relax, enjoy, have a bit of fun with it. If that means trying something new, like power breaking, or flashy nakbup or maybe trying your hand at Tournament fighting, or forms.... whatever, go and explore the different facets of whats out there. Some of us take this thing soooooo seriously. Too seriously, in my opinion. Train hard, be dedicated to your art, but also be open to other aspects of the martial arts as an entity - of which we're all a part, learn things, try things, experiment rather than condemn. What have you got to lose?
Sorry Bigmikey, or anyone else for any offense, this was meant more as tongue in cheek, my writing vs. what I read in my head are clearly not the same.I realize that I often sound somewhat passive aggressive when I go back and read my posts later, I think I am attempting not to be outwardly offensive, clearly that ain't working. As I read the thing I was not making any jabs, but again, if that is anyone's perspective, I missed the mark badly. Bigmikey, you have now made it clear that the breaking will be taught, that you are not expected to wing it. Again, if you are having fun with what you do, I have no further comment on that at all, as my intent clearly is not matching my word output. Sorry folks.
Thanks, Thomas: I didn't want to beat a dead horse, but your post touched on the difference I was working to make. Maybe I missed this message with Mikey's posts. In those cases where the teacher sets the tone and the tone is positive, a bit light-hearted and enjoyable I think Mikey has the right idea. In my own case, the tone was much more serious and the crunch was on our demo team to represent the school in the best possible light: no excuses accepted. I very much came to see that as "using" the students, so to speak. Where its a fun atmosphere that lets the students "show-off" a bit, why not? Like Mikey says, its not like most of the practitioners are ever going to face-down a Life-&-Death situation in their lives. Good points. Best Wishes, Bruce
