I am curious what other internal practioners on the forum have heard, experienced, or seen in regards to the potential dangers of incorrect qigong practice. Personally, I practice a very gentle water method gong, and while certain blockages have been intense to work through, I have never experienced anything negative, per se. I am most interested in avoiding potential pitfalls that others have experienced, and seeing any warning signs in the road.
things i have heard some have happened to me some have not extreme tiredness afterwards or going really hyper (nothing to serious) depending on the qi gong if its hard torn muscles messed up joints that sort of thing (tennis elbow) have heard it could mess with your sanity (i reckon its true) a lot more things will go read about them and come back
I reckon that if you are practicing that sort of chi kung then you really should be seeking guidance from a good teacher.
From what I heard/ read…improper Qigong may lead to the following: 1. Postive and desired Results not achieved. 2. Negative and undesirable results occur. By negative , I mean the Ching- Chi- Shen cyclic refinement process is taking place at too fast a rate or not happening at all. Also sometimes , if the enegry is not circulated ( Microcosmic and Macrocosmic orbits), it can affect one’s thinking ( mental problems )and one may suffer some mental problems. Some Qigong styles emphasises driving the Chi from the Abdomen Dantien up to the Head Danten and lodge the Qi there ( linear path). Qi accumulating in the Head Dantien is not recommended. ( Guess why they say "it's all gone to his head" ) This is dangerous. There are reported case in Chinese Mental Hospitals of such cases, where the Qigong was done wrong. Basically, the guidel line is 1. Do it slowly and steadily 2. Make sure the Chi is circulated 3. Get proper guidance Just my opinion, I’m sure some people will disagree with me. My info comes from 3 Taoist teachers, all trained in Traditional Chinese Medicine, all have warned me about the mental health dangers of KUNDALINI style Yoga.( Other style are benign) Basically in Yoga, the Qi ( Prana) is not circulated, but take a linear path, and accumulates in the head. Do a search on Kundalini Psychosis in Google…..
Well, qigong can involve deep, focused breathing so it's wise for anyone with high blood pressure to speak to a doctor first. Also, holding a position for long periods can be unwise if you have the wrong qigong posture or a prior injury. My teacher always advises a grounding qigong after practice, especially when you are doing qigong exercises for a while. Many of us will know the light-headed "high" you get from forms and qigong - I don't know if it's dangerous but it's not a good idea to stay in that state for too long (as my teacher says - "you might end up wandering in front of a bus"). Personally, I think any qigong is beneficial. I don't know how much adverse affects you'd have if you practiced three exercises in the wrong order, or at 6:00am instead of 9:45. It's light exercise - the only strenuous thing for some people is the focused breathing and it must be better than no exercise.
The only time anyone should be concerned about Qigong is when you begin more advanced Qigongs which require reverse breathing. The standard forms of abdominal breath work merely mirror the deep breath patterns such as when we are asleep. There have been no such problems as stated above with people going mad from deep abdominal breathing during sleep, why should there be any while people are awake... it's a bit of nonsense. People who have allot of pent up emotional baggage have sometimes been known to break down into tears after gruelling sessions of standard froms, Qigong or even breath work. Because the chest and the stomach is the seat of the emtotions and many people store and internalise emotional pain, anger and various other kinds of negative energy without proper release, it is not uncommon for people to find themselves in the middle of a brief break down which is actually the bodies natural mechanism for cleansing grief and other negative emotions. This however is a positive feedback and should not be confused with going mad. As I stated the only time guidance is recomended is when the student begins to embark upon less natural forms of breath work such as the reverse breath methods and those which might require visualisation techniques beyond standard abdominal breathing. I've been abdominally breathing for years, I'm not mad....yet!
It’s amazing how often in MAP we come across experts who dismiss as “ nonsense “ something they have never heard of before or no direct knowledge of. It presumes that if he/she doesn’t know it , then it couldn’t possiblly be true. It suggest he already knows everything there is to know. It doesn’t allow room for self error. Kind of reminds one that the world was flat up to the 16th century. Didn’t Newton once remark “ The more I learn , the less I know” BTW, no one is suggesting Qigong drives people mad. The suggestion was sometimes IMPROPER Qigong can lead to mental problems. I didn’t use the term “ Mad”, nor was I refering to emotional release / breakdown as madness. Also “ gruelling sessions of …Qigong” was used . Isn’t that a bizzare contradiction of terms ? Qigong is intended to lead to relaxation and stress relief. Anything “ gruelling” is stressful and counter to original Taoist principles. Maybe a re-read of the Tao Te Ching , especially the part about “ Wu Wei” is appropriate. Wu Wei is about achieving things thru “ non struggle and natural means” Not anything “ Gruelling”
You are probably refering to TANTRIC Yoga which is another variation. KUNDALINI Yoga was what the one I referred to in the discussion.
It’s amazing how often in MAP we come across experts who dismiss as “ nonsense] You assert things with which I disagree. I have read many works on Qigong and have been practicing it myself for long enough to have an opinion that differs from your own as well as a teacher who has had nearly 30 years doing it. Your opinion may differ, so be it. ARE YOU AN EXPERT? something they have never heard of before or no direct knowledge of. It presumes that if he/she doesn’t know it , then it couldn’t possiblly be true. Yes I have heard of things and yes I am aware of things, but I think your a drama queen. I also think those circumstances with which you speak are not proven to be independant of a prior predeliction towards mental illness which may or may not have had any direct bearing on the practice of Qigong. Until you have conducted sound scientific studies to prove this either way, your not only *not* an expert but your speculating at best! It suggest he already knows everything there is to know. It doesn’t allow room for self error. Kind of reminds one that the world was flat up to the 16th century. You know allot about it, why don't you look in the mirror then. Didn’t Newton once remark “ The more I learn , the less I know” Yeah, and the advertising agencies once said "A mars a day helps you work rest and play" BTW, no one is suggesting Qigong drives people mad. The suggestion was sometimes IMPROPER Qigong can lead to mental problems. Yes and I think this is unproven scientifically and therefore is misleading and improper specualtion without hard scientific documentation, case histories and prior medical background on each individual. It would be like saying because a guy had a heart attack whilst flying an aircraft and crached the plane that "Flying a aircraft could cause you to have a heart attack and crash a plane". I didn’t use the term “ Mad”, nor was I refering to emotional release / breakdown as madness. I didn't say you used the term mad either, I guess somebodies out to get you then? Also “ gruelling sessions of …Qigong” was used . Isn’t that a bizzare contradiction of terms ? Some people when they begin Taiji or Qigong are not used to performing such slow forms and deep breathing exercises. Doing the Yangs 108 for 30 mins with deep abdominal breathing for people who trap allot of energy in their upper Jiao or chestal area's find the experience of such deep abdominal breathing to be very gruelling emotionally and will often breakdown or become overwhelmed by emotion during or after practice. Qigong is intended to lead to relaxation and stress relief. Anything “ gruelling” is stressful and counter to original Taoist principles. Maybe a re-read of the Tao Te Ching , especially the part about “ Wu Wei” is appropriate. Maybe a re-read of my post would have the same beneficial effect. Wu Wei is about achieving things thru “ non struggle and natural means” Not anything “ Gruelling” Gee, really? __________________
SC:It’s amazing how often in MAP we come across experts who dismiss as “ nonsense” something they have never heard of . It presumes that if he doesn’t know it , then it couldn’t possibly be true. SYD:You assert things with which I disagree. I have READ many works on Qigong and have been practicing it myself for long enough to have an opinion that differs from your own as well as a teacher who has had nearly 30 years doing it. Your opinion may differ, so be it. ARE YOU AN EXPERT? SC:No I’m not an expert. But I also don’t go around dismissing new ideas on the basis of not hearing about it.I tend to check with more than 1 source for consensus. All opinions I provided thus far are that of the Taoist masters, not mine. I currently have 3 Taoist teachers with whom I meet on a weekly basis. I can only share with you what I learn , I do not insist it is true. People are welcome to disagree , but I will react if I'm attacked, because I dont want to be misrepresented. SYD:Yes I have heard of things and yes I am aware of things, but I think your a drama queen. I also think those circumstances with which you speak are not proven to be independant of a prior predeliction towards mental illness which may or may not have had any direct bearing on the practice of Qigong. Until you have conducted sound scientific studies to prove this either way, your not only *not* an expert but your speculating at best! SC: Ah, so it’s all about scientific evidence is it? So according to your logic , since Chi/Qi has yet to be conclusively proven scientifically, you and I are developing “ rubbish” when we practise Qigong. Piglet Hesitates , Owl Pontificates, Rabbit Calculates, but Pooh just is. Owl acquires knowledge for knowledge sake but doesn't understand much because the very knowledge he has, imprisons him in a “scientific” box which limits further wisdom: ….................from the Tao of Pooh Science rejects what it cant understand. Many scientists used to say Einstein was wrong. Until Einstein proved them wrong. Science still cannot explain Acupunture. Yet it works. It was dismissed by Western medicine as " Snake Oil practice" in till the 70's. Look how far we have come. SC:It suggest he already knows everything there is to know. It doesn’t allow room for self error. Kind of reminds one that the world was flat up to the 16th century. SYD:You know allot about it, why don't you look in the mirror then. SC: I have, but I don’t dismiss other people’s ideas just because I don’t agree. Didn’t Newton once remark “ The more I learn , the less I know” SYD:Yeah, and the advertising agencies once said "A mars a day helps you work rest and play" SC: Argumentative and not useful SC:I didn’t use the term “ Mad”, nor was I refering to emotional release / breakdown as madness. SYD:I didn't say you used the term mad either, I guess somebodies out to get you then? SC:Now who’s the drama queen here. SC:Also “ gruelling sessions of …Qigong” was used . Isn’t that a bizzare contradiction of terms ? SYD:Some people when they begin Taiji or Qigong are not used to performing such slow forms and deep breathing exercises. Doing the Yangs 108 for 30 mins with deep abdominal breathing for people who trap allot of energy in their upper Jiao or chestal area's find the experience of such deep abdominal breathing to be very gruelling emotionally and will often breakdown or become overwhelmed by emotion during or after practice. Perhaps they are not doing it properly. Did they learn TaiChi from a video or from someone who read a book ? SC: Qigong is intended to lead to relaxation and stress relief. Anything “ gruelling” is stressful and counter to original Taoist principles. Maybe a re-read of the Tao Te Ching , especially the part about “ Wu Wei” is appropriate. SYD: Maybe a re-read of my post would have the same beneficial effect. SC: Argumentative and not helpful. Wu Wei is about achieving things thru “ non struggle and natural means” Not anything “ Gruelling” SYD:Gee, really? SC: Scarcasm. Again not informative . If you want to be an Internal Martial Artist but don't dont know about "Wu Wei " principles...well it's like wondering why the bulb won't light when it's not plugged in.
I have READ(Your emphasis NOT mine) many works on Qigong and have been practicing it myself for long enough to have an opinion that differs from your own as well as a teacher who has had nearly 30 years doing it. SC:No I’m not an expert. But I also don’t go around dismissing new ideas on the basis of not hearing about it.I tend to check with more than 1 source for consensus. Sorry, but your ideas are not new idea's and I have heard it all before. This has nothing to do with my dismissing them. You assume I consult one source when I have clearly stated my sources are multiple. You seem fixated on seeing only those things which support your agenda. All opinions I provided thus far are that of the Taoist masters, not mine. Ah, so the opinions you have are not your own, you have no first hand experience of the things you discuss but you assert these things based on heresay as though they were absolute? By the way, I've met Taoist masters also and this is only a title like Bank Manager. It gives no proof of a persons character or knowledge. You use "Taoist" as though this is mean't to be the golden key to all truth, reality and wisdom. I have met Tibetan Buddhists who I woudn't trust as far as I could throw. Does this give you the monopoly on Qigong facts? I currently have 3 Taoist teachers with whom I meet on a weekly basis. Wouldn't just one good one be enough? I can only share with you what I learn , I do not insist it is true. People are welcome to disagree... Atlast, you have arrived at some reasonable understanding. but I will react if I'm attacked, because I dont want to be misrepresented. When were you attacked or misrepresented? Where is the peace and centering you talk of put into action here? A man who has no ego cannot be attacked, as there is nothing to attack...grasshopper. SC: Ah, so it’s all about scientific evidence is it? No, but you can't just go stating things about certain aspects of Qigong that are knowable and measurable, such as mental illness, it's various causes and subtexts without so much as one single qualitification of study regarding the situation. You paint very broad strokes without so much as a hint of anything to back it up. So according to your logic , since Chi/Qi has yet to be conclusively proven scientifically, you and I are developing “ rubbish” when we practise Qigong. Not at all. Mental illness is measurable, breathing is measurable. Find for me the connection between breath work, Qi and mental illness and you will have grounds for your statements. That is what I am saying. Qi is a personal experiential phenomena which develops within a certain context and paradigm that is at this point beyond our capability to measure. Since this is the case and it is currently immeasurable how can you claim that Qigong and the use of Qi is responsible for mental illness?! Even without the science of the thing, by what authority of analysis do you purport to reach those conclusions? For the record I am intimate with my own life force and Qi every day. I can only share my findings by experience but there are no absolutes and nothing is proven to work for another which works for me. Mental Illness and breathing are measurable aspects of the human condition which have been open to observation for hundreds of years. I have yet to find any evidence that general abdominal breathing causes mental illness. Piglet Hesitates , Owl Pontificates, Rabbit Calculates, but Pooh just is. Owl acquires knowledge for knowledge sake but doesn't understand much because the very knowledge he has, imprisons him in a “scientific” box which limits further wisdom: ….................from the Tao of Pooh Another nice quote, when do we get some of your own original thoughts? Science rejects what it cant understand. Your preaching to the converted here... Science still cannot explain Acupunture. Yet it works. It was dismissed by Western medicine as " Snake Oil practice" in till the 70's. Look how far we have come. I studied Accupuncture and TCM at university and wrote papers on all of the above.... your point? SC: I have, but I don’t dismiss other people’s ideas just because I don’t agree. There is a big difference between disagreeing and dismissing, now which one was I? SC: Argumentative and not useful It was ironic... and very useful for those who have the eye's to see it. SC:Now who’s the drama queen here. You, you still have no sense of humour and too much attachment to transcend the debate and look objectively at your own position. SC: Qigong is intended to lead to relaxation and stress relief. *L* Wow Anything “ gruelling” is stressful and counter to original Taoist principles. You see your finger pointing at the moon and not the moon. How can I help that? SC: Argumentative and not helpful. Your quite open to the views of others aren't you? SC: Scarcasm. Again not informative If you want to be an Internal Martial Artist but don't dont know about "Wu Wei " principles...well it's like wondering why the bulb won't light when it's not plugged in. Your arrogance and assumed knowledge is pretty funny, preach on. You have so little understanding of what I know and yet you condescend constantly to everyone around you. No wonder you need 3 Taoist masters to figure it all out for you. Best, Syd
What about fire method vs. water method? Soggycat-- it sounds like you advocate a water method of qigong. I have read a couple of books by B.K. Frantzis, and he seems to share the same view of inherent dangers in fire methods. My experience, however, has been more like syd's-- the more aware and in control of my qi I become, the more clear to me that it is not some force that is epiphenomenal that I have to tap into, but rather a much more direct experience of my body itself (and the air around me, and the ground below me, etc.) I guess that the reason I brought it up was because I was reading through some of syd's prior posts, and was interested in the qigong his master teaches, but it would require me to move from a water method to a fire method, and I wanted to know if there was any risk. Syd-- that is interesting about the reverse breathing. I have heard that practitioners can generate an enormous amount of heat that way-- enough to make steam rise off of them in the winter. Is that your experience of it?
G'day Hwardo. ... and was interested in the qigong his master teaches, but it would require me to move from a water method to a fire method, and I wanted to know if there was any risk. Which teacher are you reffering to mate? Are you meaning Erle or my Yut Hei Jeung teacher? Syd-- that is interesting about the reverse breathing. I wasn't actually talking about reverse breathing as in the Wind Method of circulation, it's easy to get confused on some of these things. It is an advanced method Qigong taught by my teacher which is the one that I did refer to earlier which requires proper guidance in. We are also taught that when striking or issuing fajin we use reverse breathing when striking. I have heard that practitioners can generate an enormous amount of heat that way-- enough to make steam rise off of them in the winter. Is that your experience of it? Well I have never had steam rising off me during standard small circulation or using fire method and generally I never feel hot after Qigong. You see there are literally thousands of various Qigong methods and my own school as no less than maybe 20 different Qigong's for various circumstances. There comes the issue of placing the tongue in various positions during circulation in order to alter the flow through different channels also. I am not that big on describing these methods in detail online because people will often want to try them and without proper guidance it's not going to work. It just all depends on what method of Qigong you use to achieve your goals. I am not specifically geared towards Water method or Qigong for Religiousor Longevity purposes and find that the so-called fire method suits me very well indeed for healing and general well being as well as cultivation of martial energy. I have had very profound and wonderous experiences from my methods of qigong including more advanced one legged standing qigongs and Triple Warmer methods. I'm aware of the power of breath to heal emotional imbalance because I have experienced it personally and speak from experience. I have not however had any detrimental experiences nor have I had an over prevalence of Yang energy as a result of performing the so-called Fire methods of qigong small circulations. Best, Syd
Hi Syd, It was Erle-- Specifically the 2 circle standing post gong with the hands raised to stimulate the crown. His version of stimulating the microcosmic orbit sounded interesting too. Regarding the reverse breathing-- yeah, it is indeed amazing how many different variations of this stuff there are. I find myself reading about the same techniques I practice, but with literally the opposite intent sometimes. For instance, our version of the standing posture focuses on dissolving downward through the bubbling well point into the ground, whereas different gongs literally reverse the process. I have long since given up holding any above the other, but I am always hoping to learn something new. I agree with you that it is not beneficial to share qigongs on without proper guidance, but I appreciate your sharing of ideas-- it can be just what a fella needs to hear to jump in and try something new. Cheers, Bryan
Hey Hwardo, Gotcha, actually the Qigong is 3 circle rather than 2 circle. We have the circle between our feet and a slight arching of the feet and tucking the toes under to drag energy down into Kidney 1 (Bubbling Well) then we have the second circle made with our arms, with the kua open ofcourse and then there is the circle made between the palms of the hands and the activation positions of points by holding the hands in a certain fashion. A mate of mine who I train with has been to China and is a Taiji pracitioner. He often shares anecdotal stories of the billions of Qigongs practiced in the parks and thereabouts. Too many to mention! Best, Syd
Question for you, Syd: While I am in my standing posture, my knees eventually release most of their tension, but it seems to go directly into my calves, and they begin to shake, and I sweat and such. Is it a natural part of the process for this tension to express itself in various ways like pain or shaking? Should you just continue practice, or is it a sign that your allignment is off? Thanks for all your info.
Hey Hwardo It may be an alignment thing and it's hard to tell without being with you in person to see. Generally you want to have the buttocks tucked slightly under so that you have the feeling that you are sitting on something. When this happens you can sink the weight but there should be no particular strain in the calves or thighs that brings on pain of any significance. You may be sinking too far into the legs and you might want to try a more shallow posture and see how that works for you. It is quite normal for people to experience shaking in the legs and various other parts of the body as well as sweating at certain times. Usually these things are associated with blockages of Qi and the Qi working through these blockages. I would say that sweating is usually a sign of the beginner in Qigong but this doesn't seem to be the case with you, I assume. My best advice would be to try standing in a slightly less shallow posture and pay more attention to breath work and the body will find it's own natural balance. Usually tension or pain is a sign that you have not become fully sung, by concentrating on the breath work you will be able to achieve sung without tension, thats the place you need to aim for to get the best body alignment. It's generally considered that you should not allow body alignment to distract you from breath work as the Qi will naturally flow as long as you empty the mind. My Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jeung teacher teaches us a Qigong where we do not fixed postures or focussing at all but rather we just empty the mind and breath. I find that when I do not think of anything but focus on emptyness I always have strong Qi flow, particularly while doing Taiji forms. I'm sorry if that sounds jumbled but I have allowed for both sides of what you are doing and both possibilities. Basically it could be alignment or it could just be blockages. Try not to be too concerned about it as the body will find it's natural position as long as you empty the mind and remain sung. Best, Syd
