Spoiler To be fair, after 3 really close fights, Marquez was due a victory. He said he needed a knockout and holy hell did he get one.
Spoiler The way I see it, a moment of carelessness cost Pacquiao dearly. He was doing a lot better than Marquez at the time he got knocked out. Maybe that's why he dropped his guard and ended up like this. It's too bad..
Spoiler In the pre-fight show Pac was talking about how he changed his style to be more aggressive, which he was definitely doing. Fighting to knock somebody out is a lot different then how he fought previously and I think he got caught by a good fighter by not fully being able to adapt to the different threats posed to an aggressive style at that level. If your'e an orthodox fighter a good tactic against southpaws is to go to the body, and throw overhand rights. Marquez did both of those the entire fight and ended up dropping Pac with the overhand right. I don't think Pac was as careless as he was unprepared or aware of the weaknesses of what he was doing. Regardless of that Pac was doing great, but Marquez definitely had the determination, patience, ability, and timing to beat him.
Spoiler I didn't watch the pre-fight and I also just watched Many's statements right after he got back to his feet. He said pretty much what I posted, that he got careless. According to what you say Pacquiao lost to Marquez because the later one had the answers to Many's aggressive style. You might be right. I am not knowledgeable enough since I am still a noobie to the sport and I can't back up anything I say. But I am sure of one thing. The exact moment Pacquiao made his final attack, I did thought that he was too open. And then he got shot. Most of the times I fail to see these things due to my inexperience, but this was obvious even to my eyes. That says something. I don't know.. I still believe that Many kind of committed suicide and he had this one.
Spoiler Marquez has always presented hard work for Pacquiao... and never more so than by getting absolutely flattened by that right. DAMN!!!!!!!! I'm a huge Pac fan.... so yeah I was bummed... but I've always liked Marquez and for that matter the gameness and sheer toughness of most of the Mexican fighters. Credit where credit is due Marquez pulled it out of the hat and knocked Pac into next week. It happens - it's boxing and that's why the saying there's always a punchers chance.
Was Marquez juicin? Check this out & decide for yourself - Marquez, age 38, several times addressed the news that his strength and conditioning coach, Id'd as "Angel Hernandez" on the second episode of HBO's 24/7, has a history in illegal doping, back when he was known as "Angel Heredia." In 2008, the BBC called him a "Mexican steroid dealer," and detailed how he aided prosecutors in building a case against Trevor Graham, coach of Olympic sprinter Marion Jones, who went down in flames in the BALCO scandal. Heredia admitted he sold PEDs to many Olympic athletes. Basically, it appears Heredia ratted out a dozen or more athletes, seemingly helping out the prosecution in exchange for immunity from prosecution.
If he was juicing, then maybe we'll get the Pac-Mayweather fight, because Pac was ahead on all the judge's cards. We can hope. If he was not juicing, then, bye-bye Pac. It's been a good run.
A lot of people have said it was just one of those things, that he got caught with a "lucky" punch. It reminds me a bit like when Roy Jones 1st got KO'd. I loved Roy, and I too said that it was a one-off and won't happen again. But it did. Again, and again. I hope I am wrong, but this seems quite similar. And Pacquiao was dropped previously in rd3 also.
There's no such thing as a lucky punch. Marquez didn't get lucky, he spent decades training himself to spot openings and ram his fist into them and that's what he did.
That, plus, Pac for years has been dropping his arm, creating that exact opening for an overhand right. My boxing buddy and I have commented on it in every fight. We've been saying to the television screen and each other that Pacquiao can be beaten if you just time that overhand right. He's so fast, though, that nobody until now had been able to capitalize on it.
That's a problem with a lot of Roach's fighters. He trains them to excel in offense but ever notice how they always have a tougher time against counterpunchers? Take Amir Khan for example. Naturally talented, extremely quick, good long arms built for a strong job, heavily offensive, but completely the opposite in defense. Those few times he's unable to keep heavy hitting counterpunchers like Maidana, Peterson and Garcia away, he gets tagged and there's nothing he can do about it. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. almost beat Sergio Martinez in the end of their fight but Martinez's counterpunching style pretty much dominated him throughout the fight. Roach doesn't stress defense enough. As for Marquez, I've never seen that kind of power from him before and when Pac got knocked out, I stood up and was praying he was okay, I didn't even care he got knocked out until he started moving again. But where Pac got hit is the same place he delivered the one-hit KO to Ricky Hatton in their 2nd round before ending his career. Any decent punch to the lower side of the jaw blacks you out. It has to do with something related to an exposed and sensitive nerve in that area going straight to your brain. It happens to a lot of boxers. JMM's results came back negative, so he's "officially" clear, but his conditioning coach has a long history. He openly admitted in trial that he was able to give his fighters PEDs and being able to pass drug tests. Mayweather has been right all along.
Hmmm ... I never looked at it that way. I'm going to bring that up with my buddies next time we watch boxing! :fight1:
About making OSDT mandatory for all fights. They need to clean the sport up. Please do, let me know what you guys come up. It's something I only realized earlier this year myself. Of course, I could be wrong but it struck me as an odd coincidence that his top 3 fighters, Pac, Khan, Chavez Jr, all suffered defeats to counterpunchers in the same year. *Edit - Khan ended up leaving Roach and now Chavez Jr is considering moving under Beristain's tutelage (JMM's trainer).
I brought it up today. My pal paused for a moment, and then said, "Hmm ... that's a really good point." And then we chatted, and he said again, "That's a really good point. I never thought of that."
And Sandninjer gets none of the credit! I bet you copy/paste popular sayings/pictures that are other people's original work and put it on Facebook without acknowledging the creator don't you? . . . . DON'T YOU?!
LOL! No, I did not mention Sand by name specifically, that's true, but I did credit this thread on MAP. My offline friend thinks Pac has been juicing. I don't even like to think about that, because he was my favorite boxer for many years, and I still like him.
Hah! I guess I may be on to something then. I always enjoy discussing boxing even though it's a fading sport, but rarely know anyone in person that actually knows what the heck's going on outside of what's being tossed around on HBO's 24/7, if even that.
