****o-ryu Karate! What's Your Opinion On It?!

Discussion in 'Karate' started by fightorflight, Apr 16, 2004.

  1. WotEvaYuKanDo

    WotEvaYuKanDo Valued Member

    One thing I have wondered about, not really being too familiar with ****oryu, is why did many of the followers of Tani stop calling their practise 'Shukokai'? What was 'Shukokai' in relation to ****oryu? (All I know is it came about from Tani's school and had an emphasis on innovative new, for the time, training methods.) Are Shukokai kata different, or is it just how some of the kihon is done? Was it abandoned or is it just that the name Tani-ha ****oryu became preferred?
  2. hidden_cloud

    hidden_cloud New Member

    Little things

    First I'd like to say ****o ryu came from Okinawa. Okinawa has thousands of years of history. Of people fighting for their lives and of people banning weapons. At that time, people shared their knowledge so that the farmers and fishermen could save their families. Shotokan and ****o ryu have a few similar principals but different applications. ****o ryu is unique in itself and has something for everyone. Mabuni took what he found and used it all. He took something he liked from one place and said this can work in one circumstance, then took something completely different and found a place for it. In a way it's a balance. Once you spend a few years in ****o ryu you can find things you can focus on. You can take one of the many many many kata's and make it your own. (Forgive my spelling...)Matsumora Rohai, is light and fluid, and with a few years experience and responsibilty under your belt, you can use that kata in self defence, in kumite you might find a use for somethings and even in the kata itself for tournament purposes. You can put your personality into it to make it your own. On the other hand there is Bassai Dai, a heavier, bigger movement type of kata. Which also has its thousands of purposes.
    When getting into ****o ryu you will learn to breathe, to move, and to keep balance and focus. I'm not an expert but I am a student, and thats a start.
  3. Kosokun

    Kosokun Valued Member

    Mr. Tani was one of Kenwa Mabuni's (founder of ****o Ryu) senior students. Mr. Tani was one of only a few people to receive Shihan License from Kenwa Mabuni. His karate was indeed "Tani-ha ****o Ryu". Mr. Tani at one point decided to call his karate "Shukokai". AFAIK, both names were appropriate.
    As is typical with styles when the founder dies, Shukokai split into various factions. Some call themselves Tani-ha ****o Ryu and some call themselves Shukokai.


  4. Kosokun

    Kosokun Valued Member

    Your post makes Mabuni seem a little Bruce Lee like, in that he took from here and and blended it into a style. That's a little wide of the mark.

    Mr. Mabuni was born and bred in Okinawa and yes, he did learn his karate in Okinawa. However, he gave his karate a name and codified it in Japan. Hence, it's considered a Japanese style, although, like Goju, it is much closer to an Okinawan style than it is some of the more purely Japanese styles like Shotokan or Wado Ryu or Kyokushin.

    Now, before one shout's "Quibble! It's still Okinawan as he learned his karate in Okinawa." Right. But, we call the arts founded by Funakoshi's students who moved back to Korea, Taekwondo, and we consider Song Mu Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, Chung do Kwan and Chung Mu Kwan, Korean arts, don't we? Well, the founders of those arts learned their karate in Japan.

    According to the late Soke of ****o Ryu, Kenzo Mabuni, Kenwa Mabuni set out to preserve the karate of Itosu, Higaonna, Arakaki and a couple of other forms. He also created some new kata i.e., Jyuroku, Myojo, Kenshu, and others. The Itosu kata are to be done "Itosu's way" the Higaonna Kata are to be done "Higaonna's way". They're not to be blended in some sort of composite way of performing. So, in that sense he did not blend and make something new. Now, with regard to the kata that he did create yes, that's more eclectic. Bassai Dai and Matsumura Rohai (Itosu kata) are to be performed in the same manner. Light, quick, strong. The Higaonna kata are more "heavy" emphasize dynamic tension, breathing and circular movement .


  5. Mufty

    Mufty New Member

    Hey guys this a very interesting thread.

    The one thing I have noticed from my studies is that '****o-Ryu' has suffered that age old adege of power struggles. Also as a School of karate is relative new. Master Tani actually lernt ****o ryu from Kenwa Mabuni, then changed to Goju ryu and began learning under master Chojun Miaygi. Then in 1948 Tani decided to change everything he lernt and call it Shukokai, then one of his students Yoshinao Nanbu decided to chang thing again, and called it Sankukai. So the problem here when faced with a decision regarding joing a ****o ryu school, is, is it actually ****o ryu, or just another off shoot using the name, as there are many clubs out there claiming that they practice ****o ryu, but in actuallity they may be practicing somthing else.

    However if the club suits you and you like the their sensei, and get on ok with the training then go for it.

    In my first paragraph I am trying to put forward the problem surrounding ****o ryu. Some of you who say that there is some Shotkan involvement, although not actually right, but remember that Funakoshi was also taught by Kenwa Mabuni, so by this fact then yes there may be some Shotokan influence, but remember that Shoto was Funakoshi's nickname, so by thsi fact then no there is no Shotokan influence.

    Then we have the strong Goju ryu influence. Also ****o ryu being a modern karate, then the introduction of the competition has taken its tool on technique. Shukokai should be considered a sporting karate (Maybe) ? what do you think about this ?

    ****o ryu has very complex linage which is actually Kenwa Mabuni's martial arts linage, not master Tani's Linage. However there is also now a school that is trying to to get back to the ****i ryu roots, known as 'Taniha ****o ryu' .

    You see the problem is ****o ryu is presented to us as old and very historic with claims to very persuading linages, however maybe? infact it is a very modern interpretation of karate.

    This I find very interesting. What are you views on the subject ?

    I look forward to hearing from you :)
  6. samuri-man

    samuri-man New Member

    these are the kata from the traditional ****o-ryu karate dojo theory manual

    itosu kata

    5 pinan kata
    bassai dai
    higoana kata
    kata by kenwa mabuni
    roku empi
  7. Soni

    Soni Valued Member

    Very interesting reading. This is like a real life Indiana Jones :eek: :D
  8. Soni

    Soni Valued Member

    P.S. Anyway FightorFlight, in answer to your question and the topic of this thread, i WOULD DEFINATELY go and look at that class.

    I would love to be in your position and be close to a ****oRyu school, as my IDOL Jean Frenette trained in ****oRyu prior to developing Sankudo, so it would be an absolute must for me :D

    I would just like to say how lucky you American guys really are. You have so much access to so many different styles and clubs. England seems to be lacking behind, like we allways do, you only have to compare the amount of Musical Kata championships in England compared with the US to see what i mean.
  9. heiwa

    heiwa Valued Member

    I would love to be in your position and be close to a ****oRyu school, as my IDOL Jean Frenette trained in ****oRyu prior to developing Sankudo, so it would be an absolute must for me

    He also trained in Sankukai and Nanbudo and has awarded a dan grade after studying with their founder Yoishinao Nanbu for a considerable period of time.

    I may be wrong but as far as I was aware it was Yoshinao Nanbu who created Sankudo as part of hus Sankukai organisation and this is why Sankudo utalises the Sankukai emblem
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  10. Shibumi

    Shibumi Valued Member

    Regarding the kata numbers, it strikes me that no one mentioned 54... The number involved in the Menkyo system developed by Matsumura. Has anyone heard of this or I was fed bull crap ????

    Thank you
  11. alexst

    alexst New Member

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