Fire-quan, We've disagreed in the past, but for what its worth you've won a convert on this thread!!!! Very best wishes
I do. I'm free to share or not to share, because what I know doesn't need to be propped up by conflict with others - I already worked out, long time back, that if it's true then it has to stand on its own merits. Part of the mystery with that is that most of the stuff I talk about is simple. Seen like that, recognising simple truth isn't a claim to be a sage, just to have made the effort to think about the stuff we're told. Put like that, I'm not at all ashamed of having done that. As for the PRC - it's really nothing to do with China at all. Knowledge isn't 'in' China, it's in the people who have knowledge; it's in my coach, who was from China, or other Chinese masters that I've met, or in the books that they've written. Or indeed, in any wise person, any where int he world. To think one has to go to China is the most superficial view of all; because the real knowledge is in me, and you, hence, 'The sage need never leave his house'. That's the entire pointof what I've written in this thread:- that the intuitive method hones and uncovers native ability; as opposed to the mistaken idea that we can somehow 'learn' Quan. We can't - we unfold it, as a natural ability. What we learn is the 'vehicle' - like taiji, or yiquan. I firmly believe in Lao Tzu's statement of 'How do I know the world is like this? By looking!' Going to look at the land of China is something I've had the opportunity to do many times - but even when I go, it's only land. I can meet its knowledge here - and have done. God damn it man, get out of the superficial. My knowledge is mine - no one in China granted it to me - I had to work for it, and work damn hard, and wouldn't you know, it wasn't in China, or any style - it was in me. No, that's not true. I am, like everyone, the living embodiment of the way I've trained. You know, those guys who trained in conventional ways and were like for like with me in punching, well, one can never say that they wasted their time. They trained hard, and they got better punches for it. I trained hard too, and I got better punches, better kicks, better forms, better wrestling, better sprinting, better guitar playing, better walking, better ability to mimic other people’s movement, better reactions, better mental focus, virile sexual potency, heh… and I think strangest of all, better ability to intuit the correct way to proceed in each step of training. So I can’t say that those guys wasted their time by any means, only, that I don’t think they made the best use of their time. Zhan zhuang and the whole method of intuitive training is a strange beast. After training with one of the best coaches available in this country for six or seven years, I reached my limit. Embra is wrong to call wushu training ‘machine training’, and I’m sorry if I gave that impression. No one had a gun to our heads. We trained because we enjoyed it. The training was difficult, and hard, and what people perceive as ‘machine training’ is really just professional approach, where every detail is significant, even the way one walks to one’s place. That being by the bye, I knew I had come to the limit of my potential. Nothing my coach could do - and no matter how closely and diligently I followed his instructions, was going to make me any better. Like Iron Maiden, I’d reached a certain point and everyone knew I couldn’t do any better. And then I had a year where I just couldn’t train much because I understood how deeply superficial my approach was. I had to go away and consider deeply my coach’s instructions on Yiquan, that I’d never really, fully taken seriously before – especially zhan zhuang. I was lucky to be given some insight on sports psychology which then tied in deeply with Wang Xiang Zhai’s writing. And at a certain point, I just understood what he was talking about. I couldn’t do it, by I understood it. Then I started again. Zhan zhuang and the intuitive method is a strange and unfathomable mystery, and no attempt to force it to conform to succinct explanation will ever work. But I tell you, in all truth, it absolutely exploded my potential beyond anything that I’d thought possible. The greatest mystery to me is why, without training forms in that period, it made my forms exponentially better. But it made everything better – and not only that, it expanded in to every aspect of my life; I actually became able to think and understand things better. You know, you can’t draw me on my physical level, because you know I don’t go there. All in all, I say I can show that everything improves via this method, and I am the proof, because even though I may not be great, I am exponentially better than I was. It’s not double blind proof – in which case, don’t believe me. I’m not telling you to train this way, only that this is the theory, and the reminiscence of someone who did. What's the difference between saying that and saying you don't understand what I'm saying?
Damn - you've really got me there. The only problem is, I did more bag taining before I did zhan zhuang, and never got any where with it. It was only after I started zhan zhuang, and did less bag work, and more zhan zhuang, that I got any significant improvement. You know what it must be? My body is too stupid to know it wasn't training your way, but just got better on its own, to spite you!
That would seem to sum up where this thread is going. Maybe ongoing training in online-FU will yield 'no nonsense'. The usefull content of this thread could probably be condensed into 10% of its current wadgefull size.
The training "90 % slow motion" comment makes sense. That's part of the reason I was asking about it. As for no disharmony in Karate, I know it isn't strictly true. But my point is it is a little bit more clear cut than Tai Chi - as is proved here I think!
Anyone got any info on who spread Tai Chi? I'm in England, so let's start there. Which Master (is that the correct term) first taught here and when?
just to add on 1 I find the internal concentration as more of a power of the mind. you know the old saying my body can be in one place but my mind in another. 2. It is the flowing ness of their movement. If it is smooth or is it off tempo and sloppy. 3. yes in sparing and real combat you speed up but you practice slow because one of the main points of tai chi is too remove tension from your body when moveing slow form helps me stay aware of my mussels. when moving slowly you can perfect your technique. prefect technique then add speed. 4 push hands are realistic. it is all about redirecting force that is coming at you and keeping your center. once you learn that you can use the martial applications in tai chi better. most of the videos you see are exercices not what you would do in a real combat situation
2 - How can you tell it's off tempo when it is in slow motion? I would imagine it is difficult not to 'flow' when moving slowly? 3 - Why don't boxers, MMA, etc, practice slow then? 4 - Have you got any examples of push hands in self-defence situations?
Are people searching the internet for the history of British Tai Chi? That question seems to be being passed over.
Not sure if there was a first 'master' and as for how long, probably for as long as Chinese people have been in the UK.
Was there not someone, like when the Japanese karate masters went on their travels, that decided to spread the art?
you will see people who are new hesitate at points after one posture. You can also see their mussels tense up or speed changes in the movements. for instance they may turn slow in one part or speed up in another. To go thorough 103 postures with an even flows takes allot of work. hard styles such as MMA are designed to make the people learn how to fight as soon as possible and are they are not worried about perfect form. They just want to be able throw something that hurts. To learn perfect for and training slowly takes time that they don't have. push hands is not an self application it self but more of an exercise and principle that goes in to your combat applications. It is designed to help you control your balance and redirect the opponents force instead trying to resist it. for instance when someone is trying to grab a hold of you or throw you that is when that would come in handy. you mentioned MMA in machida's fight against silva where he literally threw the guy spiraling to the ground weather intended or not it was an application of the push hands principle.
But how can you tell when they are more experienced? It all looks the same, well, to me anyway because I don't know what I am looking at. What does perfect form actually acheive? Do you use it as a form of, shall we use the term "purification"?
Well supposedly there was this lady a long time ago... http://www.chirontaichi.co.uk/articles/gerda_geddes.html I remember seeing Cheng Tin Hung in Edinburgh with Dan Docherty and Ian Cameron (who had both trained with him in Hong Kong in the 70s), about 1981 at Dunfermline College of PE, Edinburgh. In between there would have been a few others, I guess, but I would not know who they were. I dont think TaiChi arrived like Karate/Judo/Aikido to the UK, which was probably a much more co-ordinated and organised activity.
exactly you dont know what your looking at before I got involved in the internal arts I thought just like that how can you tell good form from bad form? I mean they are all doing the same movements right? However through experience you learn what to look for. I had watched several ba gua and tai chi videos and had to go to several classes before I learned what good form is. for me to explain this to you would be like giving the final on the first day of school. it takes time patients and work and study to learn and understand what good form is and much much more to be able to achieve it. my bagua teacher told be a good analogy on why we take so long with each individual piece to achieve good form. think of a fighting style of as a car each individual piece is a part of your fighting style. The better your individual pieces are the better the car is. if yu have mediocre parts you have a mediocre car/style. we work to make every part of our style as best we can. very few people stick it out long enough to achieve a great tai chi style because the lose interst and want to learn how to fight now. for instance look at machida he took the time and worked on his foot work all the time and did probably double what the others did and now no one can catch him. Ba gua is mostly about foot work so this type of movement could be achieved. tai chi does it to. you can see those who have become very good at push hands redirect someone's force and use strong roots and push someone up i the air off their feet that is twice their size. also as bruce lee said power comes from form not strength and hell as little as he was he could kick people all the way across the room.
Dont get bogged down in the form. If you want to know if some one is good, ask to do some free pushing hands with them.
The form is done slowly as to find and recruit move nerve fibre's. It is also used to gather Qi. By doing the form slowly you will find many area's where you have previously skipped past and never knew they were there. These area's are holes,or breaks in structure. By going extremely slow you can actually feel the electrical impulses connect from your brain to the ground. The form is also used to create perfect equilibrium. I have found threw the years that that my equilibrium has changed so dramatically that it's very hard to put into words. In my opinion the form is key to acquiring high level skill in push hands. I view the form for it's martial content to some degree but it really should be classified as calisthenics. calisthenics used to acquire qi,remove holes,recruit more nerve fibre's,and gain perfect equilibrium. People get hung up on the form thinking it is the way taiji should be used in combat. It's not! In most situation's of close quarter combat the attacker is to close to you to use the form. Firequan had some good posts up there. I liked them but also found them a little off. Mind set should not be as an animal. We are not animals,we are human. The very best we could aspire to do is use no mind and even then it's very hard to keep in combat. Now before Firequan jumps off,I did enjoy his post,they were good. So I'll explain. A guys "acting" like a monkey or tiger or whatever. It's acting! As soon as he gets hit all the acting in the world cant stop the "reality" of the situation, so in a way it's only a delusion that was created inside the ego. Defeat the ego and you have won. So no acting,no ego. This is where the solid line/dotted line comes in to play. Can you find NOW?,no it's gone. Then if you try to find NOW again, well it's also gone. Those are thoughts running threw the mind. Those thoughts represent kicks,punches,chin na,whatever.There is a hole between every thought and that hole is called NOW. Behind those thoughts is NOMIND. That's where you want to be. "It's a continuous stream of never ending martial ability". By the way i passed my test yesterday. level 7.
