Then you were making a false comparison by substituting judo randori for ninjutsu randori - the name doesn't matter, the actions do. A rose by any other name...
:bang: I've dug myself in a hole. :bang: We do have an Uke and a Tori in Ninjutsu randori. Because of my inexperience in Ninjutsu I can't make a further statement on the extent of that randori and "sparring" in the higher ranks, but its there. Try asking someone with more experience.
Rather than going for long descriptions which have been covered to death in other forums just go to Matt Thortons site and get it from one of more known proponents of this type of training.
You just proved my point. In full "alive" practice you dont have an uke or Tori because they dont have different roles. There roles basically are to attack, counter and defend against the other individual. The roles are the same! As regards these upper levels that truly do full alive training. I have never seen and and no films have ever been shown. I suppose pigs can fly also but untill I see it or have some video evidence of it I doubt its reality.
Do not the roles of Uke and Tori just constantly change though in an alive situation? Two sides of a coin, you can't be both at the same instance but you do flip.
so one man decides on the fate of alive training? alive is different for many people, for me its what spooky said and what we attempt to do.
i was waiting for Guru Thorntons name to get dropped. you know, before Matt's site went live, there was no real fighting in the world, there was just 'warming-up'
No, alive isn't different for different people. You can't "kinda sorta have full resistance and intent." When confronted by a problematic argument, redefine the problem so it isn't a problem anymore! Relevance? And why do you even have to have the roles? "Uke" and "tori" are decided after the fact in judo and other full resistance arts - they're used as descriptive rather than prescriptive roles, and that's the problem with ninjutsu "randori".
There has been real fighting since man first walked on the earth and even before then. Sadly it just doesnt exit in the bujinkan these days. : It may have existed when Takamatsu was around, since then there has been a dirth. The other pertinent question I would like to ask if assuming pigs can fly and your "senior" ranks really do spar etc, then why should it take years. I just came back from a 3 day training which was mostly law enforcement and military personnel. After two days of learning technique, the third day we put on protective gear and went to the old ground and pound. So should people wanting to learn self defense wait years untill that can really learn to defend themselves???? Most of these folks arent highly skilled MA's they just need to learn to defend themselves. So why should others wait years.
so what you are saying that your aliveness is exactly te same as mine although you dont know me and we have never met? how strange. :bang:
and why would that be? because you say so, this is the thing about forums, its full of know it alls who actually turn out to be failures with inferiority complexes who find the need to express their view via pressure.
"Aliveness" is not a relative concept, it's not something that can be individual. It's an objective method of training, involving progressive resistance leading up to sparring with full resistance and full intent to win on both sides. I have no idea what such a concept as "my aliveness" even means... it's nonsense. "My full resistance and full intent training?" Regardless, "aliveness" is just a word (and a rather silly sounding one at that). It's the meaning that's important.
but again its individual also like this thread, its ninjutsu as self defense, it works for some, for others it does not look at connovar, he was probably a failure at this art but not at others, on the other hand have used it a few times for defense.........
As a Bujinkan guy that trains with aliveness. No Matt did not invent aliveness, it just has been his mission to preach it the the arts that have lost it, or never had it. He has stated many times that if he described aliveness to boxers, wrestlers, judoka, BJJ guys or any other athlete they would of course say that is the only way to train. It is for the typical martial artist and I think he went after the JKD community first as that was his background, that the preaching is to. It has been posted many times before but the Aliveness FAQ is a good read.
How is it individual? You did nothing to dispute anything I said, you just repeated your statement and threw in an ad hominem for good measure.
As an update, I just recieved video clip via a PM from an individual here that shows some alive training in the bujinkan. Its the first time I have seen it and I hope to see more of this type of training in the bujinkan. Folks its not just a matter of what techniques you know that makes you an effective fighter, but the training method is just as important. In the street your opponent wont announce that he is now going to attack you with a tackle. He just does it and usually tries to bounce your head on the wall or concrete along with it. You need to come out of the flinch which is natural and automaticall respond in an effective manner whether you are standing or on the ground, wide awake or stunned. Let me give an example of what different training provides. In 1981 I recieved my 1st Dan in classical Jiu-jitsu. We practiced locks, throws etc pretty much in a non alive fashion. However we sparred with striking and kicking in a more alive fashion albeit it was point sparring (with all of its own problems). Once another black belt and I were playing around sparring and went into grappling mode. What we both found was that both our previous techniques as competitive wrestlers were much more effective than the judo type throws etc that we practiced but never sparred with. This is not because judo throws were inferior, but was inferior was the way we trained them.Only those skills we had honed against resisting partners would work consistantly and effectively. This is why alive training is so important. Your opponent on the street will resist automatically and attempt to defeat you while you try to defeat him. Its the basic equation of combat.
it was sent via PM, so before a link gets posted, could connovar check with the person who shared it with him that they are happy for it to be public. ty
