What I feel when I train is skill. When I am working against a resisting opponent , I feel my when to push or when to pull, when to be high or when to be low, doing so my opponent falls over. This is a skill that I have sweated, shed blood and broken bones to acquire. It is not some mystical force that by standing in a set stance and 'dreaming' I will acquire. I suggest that you find a true lineage holder to train under. This reads better.
Have you got learning difficulties? You sure seem to have problems understanding. The only person here saying that Chi is a mystical force is you! I did learn from a lineage holder, btw. Its also kind of funny, that you say: If you look at BKF’s definition of Chi, it’s a more “mystical” than mine, and since you seem to hold this man in such regard that you said what you did above, then you must really have some problems with your comprehension. In other words you have contradicted yourself. Additionally if you read BKF’s books, you will find a lot of similarities with what I have been telling you, so once again, I guess you have problems with comprehension. Scarp what I said to you about finding a true lineage holder, you should be looking for a school for adults with learning difficulties instead.
Well skill is just a metaphor for a confluence of things just like chi is a metaphor... It works too when you replace God with nature. What is so special about your neigong over at Wudang? How does it work for you internally? Is it just like a Western exercise for you.. it's ok if it is. gravity and weight? It proves nothing about your nei gong really does it? This jumping on stomachs thing I'm sure it has its uses... but it smacks a bit of a circus act. Why don't you just hit each other hard? Before taijiquan I was hit many times in the stomach and in the solar plexus(sparring) without flinching. In boxing and from a BB katateka friend of mine. That doesn't mean it didn't hurt me. It's as much mental as it is condition. And a little trick of exhaling at the right time for the abdomen There is energy practice involved with taichi - this much you surely appreciate. don't you? whether you consider it of mind or body,same ,same. I can appreciate your stance. But you should consider others too.I share that there were/are taijiquan masters, v. good instructors players who get there with out practicing deeper taoist alchemy practices It is there in the art anyway...you are doing it! Are you telling me when you practice form you never do so in a meditative fashion - you must know it off by heart by now I'm sure! And I agree with INS that some levels of medative states should be reached to really get progress in IMA. It helps with knowing your sense and have a sense of your opponents mind intent and body response. I'm sure you use intuition when playing taiji - it boils down to pretty much the same sort of thing INS was talking about. You may have trained with players who 'believe' and found them wanting. But this logic does not follow imo. eg. does a belief in an unprovable God or Allah change anything for fighters, sportsmen? NO IT DOES NOT -So lets put a lid on this PISH for starters. This goes for theory and philosophy too. I'm sick of hearing this POV. Is it ok for me to say this about the belief of atheism? or an appreciation of science - NO. To me it amounts to the same thing. So get off your high horses. there training was obviously unbalanced - this happens.. Taichi is all about yin and yang - this balance should appear in mental attitude also. And in training. If you are too focused martially over mentally - your taiji may suffer If you are too much focuse on your head or chi - the martial will suffer. This comes from yang pan hou - yang forty chapters. I think it says it pretty well. Chapter 19 of The Yang Family Forty Chapters explains, . . .Without self-cultivation, there would be no means of realizing the Tao. . .The spiritual is cultivated internally and the martial externally. . .Those whose practice is successful both internally and externally reach the highest level of attainment. Those who master the martial arts through the spiritual aspect of internal cultivation, or those who master the spiritual aspect through the martial arts attain the middle level. However, those who know only internal cultivation but not the martial arts, or those who know only the martial arts without internal cultivation represent the lowest level of attainment. You are free to replace Tao/spiritual with skill if you wish it really changes nothing of what we all know...these are skills too as is chi. It's all mental skill!! So these guys who gave us taichi and obviously had faith and practiced their skill to the highest attainment. Are you saying they are wrong? and you guys at Wudang have it all sussed with your nei gong.. Aren't there any good players at Wudang who hold a concept of chi? I think some of you guys are way overly uptight about this TBH. It's just our vital energy, the overall sense of ourselves. A sense of being. And yes my sense of it helps me in training taijiquan. And I am no wet lettuce on the matt or in the ring or anywhere else for that matter. Your Palmers Green branch is on my list of places to train with, I'm really looking forward to it. Maybe I'll get over there this Monday coming. The more martial the better! I bet your nei gong is no different to some of the exercises I already do. I was doing my best to stay out of this discussion, TB said it. I thought it had passed. But this is just getting ridiculous. I think your 'camp' are making to much of the 'differences'. I bet if we all trained together, there would not be much difference as you make out..Just the way that we think about certain things. Some people just want taiji.. so let it be. What's the big deal? If they don't want to fight that's their look out. Standing stances btw is an accepted means to cultivate power in IMA - whether you focus on dan tien - structure or root..or nothing at all.. Are you disputing this and disagreeing with many recognised masters and lineage holders in IMA ? I have found moving qi gong and nei gong to not be miles apart, I do both as well as some li gong and I will continue as such. Each aims at slightly different areas, and there is crossover. Regards geo Rant off\ :Angel:
oh yeah, and OO ARE YA?? One of Jekyll's instructors/ mates I bet.. you boys like to give it the big 'un dont you? We're so martial, chi is bollox blah, blah, gimme a break...
It changes nothing, unless the 'sportsman' spends great amounts of his time holding 'god hugging' stance to generate 'god' power.
Wow, all this gum flapping over a much mis translated term, funnily enough I had this convo with a mate yesterday, personally, I believe the term Qi/Chi/Ki or however you want to say it is sooooo mis quoted or mis translated its woeful, imagine if I said that humours were the thing that really made you sick, it wasnt cancer or aids just humours and that if you stood hugging a tree for an hour a day (with a sock around the throat) you would be cured or at least feel better... replace humours with Qi/Chi/ki and there you go... its simply a concept or term used to describe something that couldnt be fully understood decades and centuries ago... bodymechanics, blood circulation and the life giving Qi... uh I mean air... Liokault for shame, you should let them know your credentials, sort of like you might on BS... All others, for shame, Liokault does have good creds and has always presented good knowledge and info whenever I have read his posts... thanks all
You do know something called Traditional Chinese Medicine right? Do you consider that mystical too.. :bang:
I resent the fact that my opinion may be disregarded for being the wrong sort of person. I highly suspect that what is really sort when I am asked for a profile is a way to right me off. "As a student of XXX what more can we expect from you!" Again I will say that I have been in Tai Chi for 17 years and have crossed hands with an expectant of almost every type of tai chi that you could name.
Hmmm I am pretty sure that the intention was not to write you off, rather its just to know a little more about you... Taiji Butterfly is pretty decent and probably didnt mean anything other than who have you studied with and how long have you been in the art etc... while there does seem to be a preponderence of those who may defend the arm waving pc crowd (here I hesitate to use the word hippy) most are actually fairly open minded...
Come on! The guy (or girl) has 'Energy Healer' in his profile......may I refer you back to my first post: You people are killing tai chi.
Not really, it's all connected.. EDIT: Once again mate, if you find yourself either a lineage master, highly skilles Nei Jia practitioner or writings by one, you will for sure come across Chi. Let me mention a few for your reference: B.K. Frantzis Alex Kozma Serge Auger Hung I Hsiang Yang Shao Jung Wang Shu Jin You on the other hand don’t fit in the same boat as these people, and I trust their words a lot more than yours.. so.. I think you get the point.. this thread is for discussing Nei Gong not the existence and validity of Chi.. stop trolling.
Even so I dont think he is trying to bait you or discredit you just find out what your credentials are.... sort of how they do on BS but without the swearing...
The last statement ITS is a bit blind... you dont know his experience and I think the offshoot discussion of Qi/Chi/Ki is fairly relevant although perhaps a bit of a digression...
