I think you are all missing the point I was trying to make!! How many women do you know who will punch (with knuckles) when in a fight situation - unless they are of martial arts background there are very few. As you have all proven you would use alternate strikes (ie palm heel strike). I'm not saying women won't fight back but men teaching non MA women self defence need to consider that most women do not want to punch someone and potentially damage their hand, they would rather use a different strike!!!
. It is ezier to also break somones nose with a palm heal.>>> Compare the number of nose breaks in boxing to the number of nose breaks in palm strike only MMA and you will see that's not true. Spar or you suggestion I challenge somone to a fight in my school they would probly think I was joking. I spar alot.>>> In vale tudo the distinction is largey semantic. Well in the last anatomy class that I took the heel of the hand was on the palmar surface - the opposite side of the hand to the knuckles (traditionally used for punching!!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, I mean they are thrown in the same way as boxing punches, IE a hook palm is thrown the same way as a hook punch. How many women do you know who will punch (with knuckles) when in a fight situation - unless they are of martial arts background there are very few. As you have all proven you would use alternate strikes (ie palm heel strike). >>> I don't see your point here. There's no real psychological difference between KOing with a punch and KOing with a palm. It takes the same amount of guts.
My point is, if you get 10 women and ask them to hit someone in an attack scenario, most of them would not punch (using knuckles). This is due to reasons such as vanity (bruised/cut knuckles don't look pretty!), fear of hurting themselves (bad posture/hitting with just the arm/hand and not the body behind the strike) or just that women who are not in martial arts do not generally punch in a fight!!! Trust me, I've taken enough self defence and martial arts classes to know that women do not like punching punch bags/pads/people without protection on their knuckles!!
" It is ezier to also break somones nose with a palm heal.>>> Compare the number of nose breaks in boxing to the number of nose breaks in palm strike only MMA and you will see that's not true." The hell I care i'm not mmaist or boxer. I am saying it takes less force to push a nose up then in and there is your ez break. Last I knew tiger claws are not allowed in either. You cannot even do a palm heel with a boxing glove on. I train for the street. Most mmaist practice in clone type arts and just punch, use roundhouses and ground fight. Not very real (rule wise the mmaist train hard and that makes them good fighters on the street as well) or unique. I fight open handed and a palm heal is faster than a punch for me. Spar or you suggestion I challenge somone to a fight in my school they would probly think I was joking. I spar alot.>>> In vale tudo the distinction is largey semantic I am a hemophilic I canno do full contact. My doctor said he would not let me. I was gonna do some nhb and found out I have this ****.
I noticed they have softer wrists and knuckles threw pad holding . I felt bad for one girl that kept saying ouch every punch and seeing her wrist bend. I think a palm heal is even more practical for a women. Tiger claws may break their nails .
I know how nastly women can get when they break a nail!! God help the poor person holding the pad / they are training with !! You have to try to develop good punching technique and strengthen the wrists (can be very hard to do with some people) in order to stop women from spraining/straining their wrists when punching especially those with delicate frames. That's one thing I've had trouble with in the past!! The last thing I wanted to do was bulk up or do weights (as some people suggested I do) and end up like popeye !! The hand grips are quite good for wrist strengthening, you have to get women's ones though as they offer slightly less resistence to men's otherwise they'd have to use two hands to squeeze the bloody things!!! LOL
heh, It's not wrist issue for me. I have to do lots of knuckle push ups and have some strong wrists. I think it is more of a angle thing weither a punch or a palm strike is more effective. I am a big fan of elbows/forearm strikes (my forearm muscles feel like a bone so I may perfer that rather than risking chipping my elbow) and grabbing the person to strike. I wouldn't use any palm strikes to anything other than the head area. It is nasty when you see nails on the floor . The women try to figure out whos nail it is. Lol, ppl call me a hulk or monk at my dojang. I guess it doesn't matter I can break a nose with a punch or a palm strike. I love tiger claws though I get a bonus scratching their eyes out after I break the nose. I think if you strike at the right angle hard enough maybe blood will get in the eyes and blind them. I will test that out on the next a hole with a tiger claw.
The hell I care i'm not mmaist or boxer. I am saying it takes less force to push a nose up then in and there is your ez break. Last I knew tiger claws are not allowed in either. You cannot even do a palm heel with a boxing glove on. I train for the street. Most mmaist practice in clone type arts and just punch, use roundhouses and ground fight. Not very real (rule wise the mmaist train hard and that makes them good fighters on the street as well) or unique. I fight open handed and a palm heal is faster than a punch for me.>>> 1: If you think all mmaists do is punch, roundhouse and groundfight you're sorely mistaken. That's where the muay thai influence comes in, with the knees, elbows and push kick, as well as standing submissions and throws from judo. Crazy ass mmaists like shonie carter and sakuraba have even introduced spinning backfists, double mongolian chops and cartwheeling guard passes. 2: Boxing is closed fist only. Palm strike MMA is only palm strikes. To see the relative difference in effectiveness just look at them in action. I'm not saying palm strikes are worthless, but they're not "better" than punches.
A lot of people I see have gone off in tangents. There was nothing said about ranges, or whatever. The question was about natural body weapons. I stick to my post of elbows & knees as the most practical & effective natural body weapons and they can be used from all ranges to defend! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
I was posting with WOMEN in mind and I have trained lots of women and took the time to learn how they react & fight. We were not talking about 2 untrained college girls brawling over the quarterback but about natural weapons that would be best used to defend oneself. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Again another person has gone off on some sort of tangent! The post was about the best natural weapon to use in a self-defense situation primarily for women. ELBOWS & KNEES are the most effective & efficient weapons to use! Uh don't all techniques have some sort of limitations? Can't do much of anything wraped in a bag & stuffed into a trunk of a car BUT aint the point, not to get there in the first place!!!!!!!!! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Sakura, Yes many on here have gone off on tangents and missed the point. Also no offense to women but how many of you GUYS have heard the saying "you punch like a girl" Most women cannot punch well enough to defend themselves even with the help of some limited self-defense class! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
And i'm saying there is no objective "best" weapon to use in a fight, it all depends on context. And this is relevant because in most womens self defense courses elbows are taught as an end all and be all. Especially as a defense against being grappled, such as a "bearhug". Experimental evidence (my own sparring, relevant matches such as Severn VS macias, UFC 4) has shown two things: 1) Elbows and knees are not a good defense against a person who's taken your back or is in some other superior grappling position (which is what they're advertised as in women's SD) 2) Elbows and knees require good clinching skill to pull off, something which is almost NEVER taught in women's SD.
Mr Ivester: I knew that name sounded familiar. I remember digging up some HEELARIOUS anti grappling. And that's where I remember you from. His school teaches the following: http://www.ict-silat.com/Anti-Grappling.jpg It's a sideways crab takedown! Well known to retarded wrestlers and crustaceans everywhere! http://www.ict-silat.com/Jarvis_Haney.jpg Anti grappling stance...They shoulda...sent...a...poet.... PS: Wanna come to a mcthrowdown?
Ok, now your getting into hypothetical scenarios! There is no such thing as the BEST technique for everything. So if I have to teach a WOMEN to defend herself I will teach knees & elbows! Again no one said anything about self-defense classes!!!!!!!! The question was on the best natural weapons to use, not the best technique to use from those weapons! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
hedgehogey, Well let me enlighten you on a couple of things: 1) You know nothing about what I know of grappling! I know lots! 2) You take a couple of pictures showing a TECHNIQUE and assume what, that's all I teach on the subject. The Anti-grappling I teach is not an end all stop everybody magical device! Had you ever studied with me (and many NHB & Grapplers have) you would know I am very hard on the people learning these techniques and make sure they know that if they think they are going to stop a competent grappler with one anti-grappling move they are sadly mistaken! Anti-grappling is designed only to stop the initial takedown so the exponent can apply some sort of counter technique. The grapplers I have taught these techniques to LOVED them! They stop their opponent and then go into a GRAPPLING maneuver of their own!!! But thanks for sharing my website on here, I appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
So, ever won a submission grappling tournament? I'm just assuming you teach that technique. Names? That's all fine and good, but frankly I can't see these techniques stopping an untrained football tackle, much less a single leg takedown. These grapplers are? Even MAP needs humor sometimes. PS: Wanna come to a mcthrowdown?
hedgehogey, Ok now I see where you’re coming from! Your not on here to learn, enlighten or debate but instead to antagonize and spout off about how grappling is the greatest fighting style of all time! Good luck to you. PS: Anytime you want to come to Florida I will be happy to accommodate you! Oh but one thing: No mats, No referee, No rules. Let's roll!!!!! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Forgive me. Any idiot can say "Pah! That won't work!!". I don't consider you an idoit, so could you please expand upon your reasoning instead of attacking other posters. Also you stated in an earlier post that the use of elbows and knees require a good use of the clinch. Could you expand on this further and explain why you think this please? Eddie, there are many tangents that have been brought up. Indulge me if you would and follow one. The weapons you have stated you describe as easy for women to learn. How do these then compare with those you might teach men? Is there any difference? Budo.
Gee I don't remember saying that. Funny how I study muay thai, then? I have just two questions for you: 1) How many submission grappling competitions have you or your students won? 2) Who are the grapplers who have studied under you? Oh, you mean vale tudo? PS: I do believe there is a florida mcthrowdown coming up. Look on bullshido.com
