Oh sorry, I didn't spot the message before! Or now that I read it, maybe I have, just before I fell asleep... That's... well, kind of sad... but as long as they don't care they won't learn much even though they paid money and travelled far... Our group went to Okinawa this summer, and I think we gulped every piece of information we got from the theachers. Us and our senseis alike. Yeah, though I thought I was focused, and I tried to think about several things that I should do during Sanchin. But then, of course, my focus turned on sensei's fingers and what the heck are they there for And I messed up the breathing. Brain farts is a good name for those! And now that you mentioned Sanchin and turns it left me wondering. The basic Sanchin you do is the one with two turns (and slightly shorter breaths - at least as we learn it)? I'm really curious
Thursday 12.1.17: 19:00 - 21:45 - Beginner class: - Warm up: short kicking game of tag and Gekisai Dai Ichi kata a few times, with a variation, too. - Individual stretching - Sensei was really mean today! He was just in front of me for the kata. Not too far. So when I kicked, I kicked slightly sideways, to avoid kicking him. Then we turned and the first thing was sensei kicking me and even giggling! I assured him this was the last time I was kind with my kicking, but he stood a bit to the side... hmph. - After that he said to make two lines facing each other. I was about in the middle and was going to go opposite to sensei, as he said his line will only have 4 people because of a smaller space and there were just four over there, when he invited me to his line. Slightly suspicious. I stood next to a boy, who was next to sensei, when sensei asked him to move a bit and told me to go next to him. Very suspicious now! He said to go into the push-up position and I understood immediately! We were going to do the push-ups where, when you are down, you roll sideways and only there go up! And sensei was mean and apparently decided to smash me! Since of course, he would count and would do it his speed that isn't easy to keep for long. I inconspicuously (as usual) made way and went closer to the boy to leave sensei enough space. But he came closer too, so I had even less space than in the beginning :bang: First roll, first roll back and sensei already stepped with his hand on my ponytail just before my way up and pulled some of my hair out! And I totally saw him laughing for himself! I made the tightest knot on my hair and continued. The boy lost the pace soon so I was going towards him, which was not good, but much better than to go different way than sensei as I am sure he wouldn't think twice about rolling me over... We did thirty, which was good. If sensei started counting another ten, I wouldn't manage.... at least not this pace, and as you can imagine, I really tried hard! - We practised San Dan GI Ichi, Ni and San - this one thoroughly as there were people who didn't know it yet. So we went step by step. And sensei again managed (this time, for a change it did look like an accident) to slide his foot back and push his heel with his whole weight on my foot! I think my eyes made nice "O's", but I managed not to cry out. - San Dan Gi San in pairs several times - Renzoku kumite GKI - solo and in pairs. - The advanced students (green up) then did the same, although the techniques were replaced with open-handed ones and with a kick and a stance that goes well with it. Again, solo and in pairs. - In between that we did some work-out, altogether: - 10 knuckle push-ups with staying down for a bit on count (tatami today, os not too harsh, but I still suck at this muscle-wise), then hald a minute just standing in the knucle push-up position with one hand up, then half a minute for the other and 10 normal knucle push-ups - After doing exercises in hikui (low, where but is the same level as knees) shiko dachi, standing a minute in that position. This was absolutely terrible! I think I managed to keep the stance low, but I tended to bend forward and my legs were trembling and buuuurning. Judging by how half the people then fell down and the other half couldn't put the legs back, I wasn't the only one suffering - Around 80 half sit-ups with raised legs - Forgot how many "right elbow to left knee while lying" - Maybe even thirty "legs straight up and like a pendulum put legs sideways without touching the floor". - 30 same position, but legs and butt up (yeah, I am sooo good at naming or explaining exercises I have no idea what they're called ) ... that was probably all. I think. - oh, and one more thing! Slight conditioning at the end - belly punch from both the senseis attending today and a student leading the etiquette. Sensei wasn't happy with how not everyone breathed out thoroughly and loudly and said we would do it more often. - stretching ...and about an hour tidying he dojo At least twice today in the house I live in, there was a fire alarm or whatever it was set on - not sure if only, but it had to do with the elevator. First time it was just when I went down with it. There was a person trying to do something with it, and although when I returned from training, it already looked alright, I used the stairs again. To the last, seventh floor, which is not too bad, but I could feel the consequences of practising the low shiko dachi
No need to apologise Nachi - I am sure you are not the 1st person my post of put to sleep... Yeah, we only perform 1 version of Sanchin Kata, with 2 turns, but the breathing is no different (with the exception of the turns themselves, where there a 3 small breaths in, before the exhale) than any other version. As Sanchin is not really an application Kata, whose roots are based more in physical meditation, with the goal being the internal and external harmony of Body, mind and breathing (spirit) - The 3 battles of the Kata's name - I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts (or your Instructors thoughts, if you get a chance to ask him) of what you feel the benefits of training multiple versions are? Travess
Oh no, I mean, it was like 1 AM here and I was already trying to fall asleep, but probably heard a notice and looked what it was and decided to respond the next day, but as I was already half asleep, I forgot about it and the notice about the message was gone I see! This one is what we call Kanryo Higaonna's Sanchin or Sanchin dai Ichi (not sure about how it's written). It is not the basic Sanchin we learn. That would be the Sanchin version by Chojun Miyagi sensei, the disciple. In this Sanchin there are no turns, but we go ackward instead. I read the history about this Sanchin evolution somewehere. I believe they are just two versions, with one being newer, but not superior in any way. We were told the breathing in the newer one is slightly longer and more forceful, though I believe that may not be how you learned it. I feel the benefits for learning both are pure historical? And that we have the opportunity to learn and as they are equal, why only learn one? I suppose. Though when we are told, "do Sanchin" we do the one without turns. If you didn't learn the one without turns, are you not doing the lineage that went through sensei Miyagi? Though I thought he is sort of the official founder of Goju ryu, so that shouldn't be the case? I suppose somewhere along the way, the turning Sanchin is something someone chose as the main one in the lineage that you learn. Or rather, both in your and my style of goju ryu someone somewher just chose Maybe. Anyway, it's interesting to know
(Emboldened in your text by me) As practitioners of a 'Traditional' style, everything we do come from a historical origin, so I can certainly understand wanting to stay true to Goju's heritage. For us, despite only studying the 1 version, we are encouraged to have a studious knowledge of the alternate variations (including the 'Chinese' openhand Nukite version) as well as understanding why we choose to include the turns. While it appears that there are no significantly positive, nor negative reasons for performing either variation, I do find it strange that the breathing, one of the Kata's core fundamentals, should be altered too? But it is definitely worth my time to look into, now that you have made me aware of it There is another UK based Goju school, which we have very close ties with, who not only perform the 2 versions of Sanchin as you do, but who also display slight nuanced differences in some of the other Kata - So as you say, it is all very interesting to learn about. Thanks Travess
From what I heard, the original (or, well, rather older, not exactly original) version with the turns had hard breathing, while when sensei Miyagi changed the kata, he put more emphasis on the breathing to be as hard and as long as possible. So when practising the older version, we were told several times, the breath there can be a bit shorter - only a slightly. Since I am not good at the long and hard breathing anyway, I don't make much difference and try as hard as I an with both kata, usually. Just when I am out of breath I don't feel too bad when doing the older version But that may be my association's look on things. Since you practise this one version, I suppose you also breath as hard as possible. That would make sense to me. Oh, yes! I don't know which nukite version you mean, but I saw a video (yay, found it!)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s ...where four masters perform their respective versions of Sanchin. And they are surprisingly very different! The version we do is, of course, the one performed by sensei Higaonna, but I suppose you would have guessed that
Oh my lord! So looking at the way Higaonna Sensei performs the breathing in the video, I would say that we (my club) incorperate long, hard breaths for the majority of the Kata, but our breaths for the return to each double uchi are much shorter... Hmmm! In short, what I have got out of this very enlightening conversation is that I perforn Sanchin like Kanryo Higaonna Sensei, breath like Morio Higaonna Sensei and (although not mentioned here previously) Shime test like Kris Wilder Sensei... Thank goodness for variety I say! Lol Travess
Haha, not very easy to describe indeed! Hm, you had me wonder about the shime. I didn't find any YouTube video on sensei Kris Wilder's shime, so I can't take a look (or are there any?). This is a video of sensei Ernie Molyneux getting the shime testing by sensei Higaonna again. This is the model I know (although I wouldn't volunteer to be sensei's testing subject ). Are there any differences to what you are used to? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwSD5AWYB80
Up until early last year, our Shime testing was very reminiscent of what is shown in this video - Having become disillusioned that this method was more of a conditioning drill, than it is a method of actually testing the Focus and structure of Sanchin, and having had the pleasure of training with Sensei Wilder on several occasions in the past, we decided to make a change. I will do my best to describe the difference in his method (as I do not believe there are any videos, but it is outlined in his book 'The Way of Sanchin Kata' under a chapter he titled '10 minute Sanchin', which I cannot recommend enough) although I doubt very much that I will do it justice... ...His way is much softer (no hitting, kicking slapping) favouring instead to gently manipulate limbs, joints etc, to test focus. An example of one such manipulation would be whilst performing any one of the Kata's slow punches, the tester would place a palm on the stationary (Uchi Uke) hand of the performer and gently move the hand/limb in a slightly circular motion - The goal of the performer is to re-adjust, whilst maintaining the rest of the body's kime. (i.e. all too often, when re-centering the manipulated limb, you'll will notice the extended striking arm begin to sway, as the focus is being shifted, and the mind split between the 2) As this is not a series of short sharp, instant tests, as with the above method, but rather a more prolonged interaction of the people involved, it serves as a much better (IMO) learning tool, highlighting issues not only in the final tense moment in each technique, but also in the transitions in between. I know, clear as mud right?! Lol Travess
I see, thank you for explaining. That does sound interesting. As I understand this shime we do, it is of course conditioning, but also has purpose in testing the stance and kime and the right muscles in work as well as focus, as you describe it. The hitting legs from sides and shoulders will well test the firmness of the subject. If you give in, you are not aligned right. You also have to endure while still focusing on breath and everything you do. A slightly brutal method, but still with purpose. If you notices, sensei also tested by checking if the spine is not curved, the tanden (pelvis) is closed etc. While maintaining this, you can't conmpromise your stance and at all times prevent your groin with thighs - hence the occasional groin kick. There is of course a "soft" testing, too, that can also be seen. For example checking if the right muscles work (pushing fingers in the sides) and something similar to what you described when sensei goes to test from the front shortly after second minute. You can see him pushing the bent arm inwards to see if it is held in the position while pushing against the extending punch. You have to focus on both and in shouldn't disturb your stance. Which, at least to me, is harder to do than it looks When we do shime in our dojo, there is also more of this soft testing. Especially the pushing (not hitting) the arms and hands. Similar to what you discribed, but often done on both arms at the same time and pushing inward rather than doing the circular motion (which in your explanation sounds like a very good test!). Or doing the circular motion too (rarely) or pushing to the four sides in sequence. We also check the toes and heels, by trying to lift the off the floor and move them. If they move, the person is not rooted enough. I think most things have their purpose in checking stance and kime especially and if the right musles are held tight all the time, also forcing you to train your focus. Apart from that, you are right, it is also a good beating Now that I look at it, it may also be that in the video I posted, the tested sensei is experienced (8th dan) and maybe doesn't require as much soft testing and maybe also because it is a demonstration he is beaten more than we generally are when we are tested in the dojo. Or maybe becasue we are not as experienced sensei is softer with us But there are generally both aspects - the soft and hard - in what we do, as it should be The approach you described sounds very nice, too. It would be very interesting to try another club's/branches methods like that
Definitely a place, and a purpose for both, and whilst it has never been explicitly stated (but knowing my instructor as well as I do) I get the sense that softer more manipulative approach will be used in our regular Sanchin lessons, whilst the more rigorous testing will be saved for gradings. (Oh Joy!) Travess
Monday 16.1.17: I had some stuff to do today and originally planned to skip training today. But a few hours before training I heard form a friend whom got a call from sensei he can't come and the other sensei, neither. He didn't feel too well, so although I kind of didn't want to go, I didn't want to leave it just on his shoulders, so I came. 18:30 - 20:00 - Beginner class: - unexpectedly a black belt appeared, so she, although she doesn't like teaching and tries to avoid it usually, sort of led the training. Or we just agreed what to do and mroe of us participated in leading it. - we did San Dan Gi Ichi and Ni as sensei instructed after a really fun warm-up and stretching - solo and in pairs - then kata - Gekisai Dai Ichi, Ni and Saifa - first only using legs, then only arms, then slowly and full power whole kata. - And a work out at the end - each person naming an exercise to be done 10x First were knuckle push-ups on a wooden floor today. Then it was the friends turn and I was absolutely confident I know what he wanted to do, because I was sure he's after Neko Undo just like me. So I told him: "don't do it, I know what you want!" And since he decided it would not be nice just after the push-ups, he got me to promise I would do that. And by the time other people realized what the exercise might be and the protests started. I was told to count, though, so unlike some, I couldn't slack off - my fault, really 20:00 - 21:30 - Self-defence class for women: - The one class I never wanted to teach and the friend wasn't happy about it, either. Luckily there are only four women this semester and all who already went through the course once, so we did a bit more karate-like class. - A thorough warm-up with variations of the game of tag, tiny work-out in between. - Junbi Undo - Three rounds in pairs where one lies face down on the floor, the other had to put them on their shoulders in a minute. I ehm, of course, have my strategy already, with which I succesfully defeated all my partners and didn't let them to turn me. I wouldn't be able to do it with a real quick or strong person likely, but this worked. With my last, a thinner partner, she wasn't able to turn me, although she was close, while I got her in like 5 seconds and after she was like: "What?" No way, just how? It was fun. I already have bruises on places specific for this game, but it was fun - My turn to teach - we did some basic punches, slowly building them up into a combination of kizami + gyaku + mawashi (hook) + kagi (uppercut) tsuki. Then this in the pads, and as a round with knee kicks and two places for a short work out and that was it - final belly work-out I was worried about this class, but I think it went well. I enjoyed it and I suppose the women, too By the time we ended a fresh snow fell. The first few kilometres to the highway in the snowy roads was kind of fun. I caught about every single red light and well, although I had some space, once I just slid and almost didn't stop. Then going again on green was fun, too. Then when tachometre finally showed at least 30 km/h, gps only said 18 Going side to side on a parking lot or when reaching the highway finally was, well, fun too, although a little scary, but in the end I made it home fine. I am not the best and most experienced driver out there and I suspect my car slips more than it should be, so it was sort of an adventure for me, too
Thursday 19.1.17: 19:00 - and I did about an hour of the class: I sae sensei was sparring with the kids so it was obvious we'd do the same. No one was very excited. We have a seminar on Saturday, so I hoped nothing will happen. And we know accidents happen. We started with light spar - or just trying to take the other person down. Four rounds - no take down with my first partner. My second partner was a small and timid girl, so I succeeded 3 times, I think. My next partner took me down, but I wouldn't stay there alone, so she followed me Toward the end of the last round I managed to take down sensei (not the teaching one today), when I finally get ahold of her pants. Than a few rounds of slapping type of sparring and a few of using only hands on no head contact. Takedowns allowed. After stretching we did partner drills - sort of a sparring preparation. And 20, 15, 10 and 5 knuckle push-ups in between. Then, it was my turn to come to sensei so he could demonstrate a technique. It was his punch, my block+punch, his block or/and punch - hook. We then tried faster and I've not much idea how it happened, but unfortunately, I got a full elbow strike straight to my teeth. It was a strong hit and unexpected and or course, I didn't have any protector. I spat out blood and that was the end of the training for me I ended up with small torns on lips, some tear on gum which is getting darker and darked, not feeling my front teeth. The swelling is slowly going away. The worst thing, though, is the hind side of one tooth just falling off under the impact I am quite sad about it. But I am icing it, I can move the lips better now, there's already less blood and it doesn't hurt anymore unless I touch teeth to teeth. Tommorrow morning I'll visit a dentist and see what he can do about it. I have the part of the tooth that fell off, but I suppose he wouldn't be able to stick it back... I just need the normal treatment I suppose so that the nerve isn't exposed and the tooth too sensitive. Now I just need to avoid my mum. If she finds out, I won't hear the end of it. I was really happy about how people helped me. There was a lot of ice stored in the dojo so a friend packed it for me, since I have none at home. Like painkillers, which friends went to buy with me, though they won't be necessary. And a chamomille tea as an advice from sensei's mum - a dentist. A friend drove me and my car home, so I at least treated her for a soup ^^
Man, that sucks. I hope it doesn't cost you too much. Taking an elbow full to the face really doesn't sound like fun, so you have my sympathy.
Just wanted to stop by and send wishes for quick healing and condolences WRT the injury, Nachi. I've never been seriously elbowed, but I have been *lightly* elbowed by my shihan in demonstrating application of hiji ate goho (8 ways of striking with the elbow) in the neck, jaw, ribs, and back of extended elbow. Get well soon, mate! I'm in the *get well* boat too-though mine is a sprain at the left ring finger, middle joint. BOOOO!!!! 2 months of physio/out of class sucks.
Gee, get well soon! That sounds like it hurt. I'm not sure what is worse: The accident or the visit at a dentist (I know for me it would be the latter )
Thank you. No, I am really looking forward to going there, to be honest! I can hardly eat anything like that! Thank you all very much It is not too fun. Because yesterday wasn't much better, I decided to skip today's seminar - my first ever skipped national seminar!!! I visited a dentist quickly. I could probably go there, but the vision of someone lightly touching my mouth made my hair stand od ends Today is slightly better, though, the numbness is getting weaker and I am already getting some feeling back to my teeth, other than pain My gum is bruised, the bruised may have enlarged slightly, but is already changing colors back from black-purplish to dark red and I got the feeling back, too I am going to have my tooth repaired on Monday and will have it X-rayd, too, though I think (hope) there's nothing more to find. No, I shall only pray that the teeth won't die and go black. I was told I can't do nothing about it by now, and can only pray. My front teeth already withstood a similar blow once, so I am hoping this time will be alright soon. Thank you for the wishes. And, matveimediaarts, that sucks! Get well, soon, too. It is a pity you have to stay out for so long I hate to stay out because of such injuries, that seemingly only affect a small area but will still put you out of training for that long. Best wishes to you!
Coincidentally in another forum was a similar thread about a damaged tooth and that person was told to go to ER actually I'd probably would die from hunger, because IÄm so scared of the dentist - I'm very glad, that you're different there Fingers crossed, that you can eat soon again Missing the seminar must be a let down though
Ehm, what does ER mean? :Angel: Like they pulled the tooth out? ...my guess. Mine luckily didn't break horizontally, but the hind side of it fell off. I have a feeling that somewhere on one of the front teeth I had a filling (if that's the word). But I think it was likely on a different tooth and it definitely wasn't as large Anyway, consideering what part of the tooth broke, I am quite sure it can be easily repaired with the filling. I went to the dentist on Friday, just to take a quick look at it and was told I should just leave it be over the weekend. It was very sensitive to anything cold and warm - and basically everything was warmer or colder than needed, so I put my tea into a refrigerator and tried to warm my smoothie over a heater But today, along with the other teeth it is actually better (to my great surprise! ...or I am just getting numb to it ) I am not happy to miss the seminar, but it was my decision in the end. And my father who gave me a talking to when I told him what happened and he saw me But I stayed in bed half a day and I think like getting back right away XD Trying not to think too much about what I missed...
Emergency Room. Hospital right after it happened. Which to me sounds good. They could knock me out with a hammer, because otherwise Imight not ever see a doc. But that's just my cowardish me Sounds like an awesome weekend *shudder* Did it at least work out? 2015 I broke my arm two weeks prior to a seminar I was looking forward to for months. Drove me insane, when I thought about it And that wasn't even a big seminar, but it was hosted by someone I know a little (a friend of my Sensei), and had a teacher I wanted to see during training (a Judo-coach I know, because he trains competitors at the same time I learn Judo by another teacher). Just wait until your Mom sees you as well Mine would say: "Tough luck, don't wine" (might be added by: "I told you so!" ) But that's usually just how my Mom reacts
