Muggings go unreported in despair at police

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Nevada_MO_Guy, May 20, 2006.

  1. Nevada_MO_Guy

    Nevada_MO_Guy Missouri_Karate_Guy

    More than half the public have lost faith in the police.

    Man, it sounds ruff....across the pond.

    As an American, being brought up with the basic right to protect one's self with semi-automatic weapon fire and high powered rifles :woo: ....I can't grasp the concept of the UK not allowing their citizens, weapons, to protect themselves.

    But, to not be able to depend on your own police force....that's sad. :(

    06/04/06 - News section

    Muggings go unreported in despair at police

    Six out of ten muggings are never reported because the public have lost faith in the police to do anything, it emerged last night.

    The devastating verdict is delivered in a report by Demos, one of Tony Blair's favourite think-tanks. It reveals plummeting public confidence in the police means tens of thousands of offences go unreported.

    If, as research cited by Demos suggests, police are not told of 58 per cent of muggings, the 80,780 offences recorded last year would in reality number 192,000.

    The list of unreported crimes also includes 35 per cent of violent attacks by strangers, 38 per cent of burglaries and 42 per cent of thefts from vehicles.

    Tory home affairs spokesman Nick Herbert said: "When such large numbers of people aren't even reporting offences, the true level of crime is far higher than official figures suggest.

    "It is essential the public feel confident that crimes will be investigated properly and offenders brought to justice."

    Demos, a centre-Left think-tank, warns that the public's experience of dealing with the police is "very gloomy".

    It adds: "The police were more likely to be rated as doing a good job by people who had no contact with them over the previous year than by those who had."

    The report says the number of victims very or fairly satisfied with the police's response fell from 68 per cent in 1994 to 58 per cent in 2003-2004.

    Victims believe police are so tied down by bureaucracy they will be unable to provide a quick response.

    LibDem Home Affairs spokesman Nick Clegg said: 'It is difficult for the police to meet public expectations when they're struggling under the weight of central targets and bureaucracy.

    "The Government must accept the blame for this loss of public confidence."

    The report makes a raft of recommendations to combat the problem. These include the abolition of police authorities and the privatisation of some functions carried out by the police. It also suggests the 43 forces should be merged to 12, rather than the 17 Ministers are planning.

    Jan Berry, chairman of the Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, said: "Police officers often face unpleasant situations and therefore the person's interaction with them may not always be perceived as positive.

    "Police officers share the public frustration of a criminal justice system which has numerous bureaucratic processes to overcome."

    The research on crimes which go unreported is based on a new study of figures from 2001. It was carried out by the Policy Exchange.

    Responding to the report, a Home Office spokesman said: "Clearly, we need to ensure that the service is equipped to deal with future challenges.

    "This is why we have established a Serious Organised Crime Agency. We are delivering neighbourhood policing in every community and are creating strategic forces with the capacity to protect people against terrorism, extremism and other serious crimes."

    Find this story at No Weapons and No Police

    Attached Files:

  2. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    Ive been mugged twice (before learning MA if you're wondering) and didnt report either. There didnt seem much point. Both were in London, so finding the people who did it is a needle in a hatstack kind of situation.
  3. Topher

    Topher allo!

    This about sum it up...

    Attached Files:

  4. Nevada_MO_Guy

    Nevada_MO_Guy Missouri_Karate_Guy

    Brilliant :D
  5. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    This is one of the most common urban myths running around at the moment , it pops up in various newspapers every couple of months.
  6. xen

    xen insanity by design

    homer, that is genius... good find :D

    only problem is, we'll all be doing that now when we need to get the cat out the tree...

    "hello, next doors cats up my tree and the owner wont get it down"

    "thats not really a police matter, have you tried the fire brigade?"

    *rings fire brigade, repeats problem*

    "sorry, sir thats a myth, we don't get cats down trees anymore, we just deal with fires"

    2 mins later

    "hi is that the fire-brigade? good, my trees on fire and i'm worried about my neighbours cat..."


    seriously, the problem is resources.

    the courts are clogged up, so the police know that for small-crime (unfortunately including average street-robbery) they will be hard pushed to get the CPS to take it to court.

    so whats the point of them deploying a limited resource if the effort is going to be wasted?

    the other slight annoyance is that the legal system seems to have been corrupted by lawyers who represent criminals and who over the last decade seem to have influenced the whole process to favour the human rights of the criminals over the moral, social and ethical rights of the victims :rolleyes:
  7. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    I agree with this wholeheartedly, apart from the fact that there is an army of bleeding heart social workers, probation officers, "community" workers, and other "rescuers" who are totally divorced from reality campaigning for this. Lawyers should be fighting for the rights of their clients, it's a legtimate and neccessary role in our criminal justice system. It's the tree hugging, yoghurt knitting hippies who are causing the problem.
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    How dare you discriminate against yoghurt knitting hippies. :D
    For shame.
  9. iamraisen

    iamraisen Valued Member

    I was beaten up by a gang when i was about 17 and hit with a metal bar making a hole in my face. i rang the police when i got home and when they got to my house (about 2 hours later) they a)accused me of starting it and then b) went to where it happened and after (not suprisingly) finding the perpetrators where no longer there, came back and told me there wasnt much else they could do.

    thats my one and only experience with the police except for when they sent me a speeding ticket. i dont think very highly of them at all. of course there are bound to be some great and genuine policemen and women out there but i am yet to meet any of them.
  10. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member

    it is definately an urban myth in the UK.
    They would wait 3 times longer if a gun was involved.
    Being an american living in the UK for the last 6 years, I am still astounded at the self-imposed ignorance running this country.
    And right off.......
    even if I DID go back home,as some of you are thinking, nothing would change!
    Being completely legal and trying so damned hard NOT to go vigilante, I talk to a lot of police officers and immigration officers( have a few in my class),
    The reason the "non-lethal" weapons,i.e: asp batons,pepper spray or even stun guns, are illegal is not the **** and bull story of "we are trying to keep these things out of the hands of the criminal element"...
    it is for the safety of the police officers! NOT the citizen.
    They definately won't take a hint from the rest of the world and let people handle themselves.
    Parliament definately believes that the citizens(or subjects) of this country are too stupid and uncapable of handling things like saving thier own lives or property.
    Parliament AND the house of lords can bite me.
    There are some damn good people (and smart ones as well in this country),that are being penalised by a paranoid delusional few.
    I have nothing but total respect for the police in this country and I feel sorry for them at the same time. They have thier hands tied by the "powers that be" and can only do so much.
    One the biggest problems here is the so called multi-cultural society.
    That is fine by me,but the problem lies in these bleeding heart sissies who believe that the british laws should not be applied to these "less fortunate" people.LAW IS LAW!
    Too much of this..."I'm allowed to do this in my home country" or "my religion says it's ok" and they honestly believe that british law does not apply to them.
    It doesn't help when these "law people" back them up spewing human rights garbage all the time.
    Murder is murder. Assault is assault. rape is rape.
    Screw your background. Take a dump in my backyard... :woo:

    ok,now realistic....
    education is the key. Banning everything in sight is not.
    People don't fear the law here on any level.
    I actually like this country. I like the people.
    I used to think I hated cops. I don't. I despise the NEED for them.
    Educate EVERYONE to the same level. Eat the rich!

    soap box is collapsing....
  11. Nomadwanders

    Nomadwanders Valued Member

    As a Canadian now living in the US, I gotta say I have the exact opposite viewpoint on the "need" for semi-automatic weapons and high powered rifles for self-protection... but that's a different thread. :D

    Rest of the story is very sad. Not being able to rely on the police to at least do something is pretty pathetic. Then again, I have yet to need them here (and hopefully never will), so I can't really compare response either.
  12. Topher

    Topher allo!

    Even the police say the human rights law hinders their job.
  13. xen

    xen insanity by design

    i knew a lad from spain living in the uk, he was telling us about their polices approach to things...

    they seem to operate under far less restriction than ours

    the question is does that approach make society more or less violent?

    if it makes it more violent doesn't it put greaters numbers at risk on all sides?
  14. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Personally, I have to agree with everything negative said about the police. I have NEVER recieved any help from the police when it has been needed, they have never helped anyone I know in my whole area etc. with anything. They aren't realistically equipped to deal with crime and ANY time they deal with crime its police brutality etc.

    The fact is the police as it stands are useless. The only time police have ever tried to be useful in my area is when I was out jogging and they stopped me because they thought I was out to knife someone. It was ludicrous.
    "What are you doing?"
    "I'm jogging?"
    "Don't be cheeky, WHAT are you doing"
    "I am jogging, getting fit, healthy"
    "At this time!?"
    "Its 9 o'clock..."
    "I KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS. Where are you going?"
    "Up to that sign, then back to the phone near the station, which is 400m so I turn round and go back..."
    "I see you up to anything beware right?"

    Then they drove off. I was just like 'whatever' and kept on jogging.
  15. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member

    no it doesn't.

    People seem to believe this false idea of "escelation"....
    "if you have a stick,then the bad guys will get a knife" and so and so on....
    Or my fav:
    "we must rise above it"...bigger crock.
    You win by fighting fire with fire. NOT a cup of frikken cup o tea.
    The UK is the biggest example of being soft only gets you kicked in the teeth.
    Sheep,wolves and sheepdogs.
    Only the sheep complain. Wolves live for it. Sheepdogs are the bad guys til the sheep needs them.Then they ignore them when the job is done.
    Like a man once said about the war in iraq:
    "If a protester is giving you all the mouth about viloence is not the answer;punch him in the face.
    When he gets up,tell him violence is not the answer(he WILL be mad)
    When he agrees;punch him again. I bet you he gets up mad as hell and tries his hardest to whip your ass"!
    The same applies on civi street.
    If the police(sheepdogs) can't fight back with the support of the "justice sytem",then what chance do the rest of us have?
    We are certainly not smart enough to fight our own battles( or so the courts want us to believe) what are we to do?

    It was said best on a documentary here last year on foriegn street gangs in this country; The gangs do what they want here because in thier homeland,
    the police would kick the ever living crap out of them and here...they get money because "they are just misunderstood".Get bent!
    The UK,london in particular, claims to be this great multi-cultural society.
    The only problem is,for it to work,you have to enforce the laws of YOUR OWN COUNTRY! NOT accomodate the criminal element of other countries based on religion or thier customs.
    I am american by birth, I obey british laws because I am a resident here.
    I don't carry a gun because I had one in north carolina.
    according to stats,crime is dropping here.Bull. It's just not being reported.
    whats the point? Just this past saturday,a 59 year old jewish man was beat up by a dozen teenagers. No one was arrested. How in the hell do you fail to find a dozen teenagers matching the descriptions right around the corner?!

    Fight fire with fire. the forest can be saved and new trees grown to enjoy a new day.
  16. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    The scary thing is there will probably end up being a huge backlash where it goes too far the other way. The police are not respected, teenagers do whatever the hell they want and dont fear the non existant consiquences. They know how to laugh off the idle threats of local cops.
  17. Garrin

    Garrin New Member

    Small thing called evidence. You cannot arrest a group of kids around found in the area of a crime just because they are kids. What probably happended which is unfortunately what happens often is that there was no CCTV, no witness's and the descriptions were prob " about 14 wearing a hoody or a basball cap, i cant remember" or no description at all i.e "oh it happened all so fast". What are the supposed to do then? I can just imagine it infront of the CSgt now " I arrested this male on suspecion of ABH, I suspect him of the offence because the description of the offender was wearing a hoody and this male is wearing a hoody". lol

    I am sorry about your experience with the police. Have you actually asked the police for help, or are you in the majority of the public who think we are mind readers and have a spider sense of crime? We are equipt to deal with crime, I dont know where you got that idea from. Do you think that us being routinely armed with firearms will make us more equipt to deal with crime? I have never been accused of police bruitality, well a few time but nothing in the form of a complaint.

    Oh whoops a police officer stopping a person he think looks suspecious. God damn police.

    If you dont report it we cannot do anything about it. Your reference to not being able to find the people who did it is not true. Alot of the offenders are allready known to the police. Reporting it also gives the police a heads up to what is going on.
  18. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member

    I don't how to seperate the quotes like the last post,do't try to explain..
    I'll blow a fuse :)

    But for the "failing to arrest the group of teenagers"...
    I must clarify, discriptions were given. They WERE the ONLY group matching the descriptions for a god knows how much of a radius.
    The excuse was "no cctv footage". Big Brother didn't see it......???
    A student of mine in bristol was in court yesterday to testify against to gang members who attacked him and bit chunks out of his face. He was willing to testify!! unlike most... :cool:
    The judge threw the case out of court because the officer in charge didn't bring the cctv footage with him.
    By the officers word...there was no footage because it happened in a blind why bother with the a blank recording?
    The judge dismissed the case because it was "funair" to the defendants.
    Lets not take into account witnesses and a HUUUGE criminal background of GBH,ABH and drugs offences of the "defendants".
    That wasn't the police. As I stated before...they are just as screwed as the rest of us.
    And to be honest, if I was a brit cop and was staring at a dozen teenagers who are out for a fight, I'd keep going too. Hell,even the americans call for back up on that one!
    Also, I know the police can't read minds.
    But if you tell a british woman you can't read her mind...there ain't enough po-lice in the country to save your ass on that one!

    I did the teenager thing of "I hate the police"!
    Then I realised, it wasn't the police I hated. It was the *******s who created the need for the police! If it wasn't for them,the police could join the rest of us on the beach with a bunch of hoola girls and pina coladas!
    Frisk them charlie ;)
  19. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    amen to that. :cool:
  20. Cuchulain4

    Cuchulain4 Valued Member

    I didnt report it becuase, the muggers would have left the scene all i would have been able to tell the police was, 6 young black males wearing hoodies and baseball caps did it... hence the point needle in a haystack.

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