Mugging Tonight- 911 surprise

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by mattt, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Guy exiting the subway behind us was mugged by 2 males, 5'10 black late teens. I turned back down the stairs when I heard a scuffle not sure if it was a person falling or an attack, the perps ran off and confirming the victim was fine, I left with my mrs.

    Called 911 on the way home and said the location, that the victim and I had both left the scene and that I wanted to give a heads up to the local law that two muggers were close by- they said thanks and hung up without taking any description - is this normal?
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    No, at least a description should've been taken. And even though you were just the witness, a Police vehicle should drive round at least to see if they can find the victim, unless he already called Police.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Very unusual.

    The only time I can see anything like this happening is if it is a call about something that they already have an active call on, but even then they should get your details for a witness statement
  4. Lockjaw

    Lockjaw Killing you softly

    Let me take a wild guess, I bet this happened in New York.

    Of course this is normal, they were way to busy having coffee, and doughnuts to take a description.
  5. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Where I live, if you have done the same thing here, there was a big chance that the police would have told you something along these lines before hunging up: "So if everything is over why are you bothering us?" :bang:
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  6. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    I once witnessed an attack (multiple attackers with metal bars and a chain) and was able to tell the police where the attackers and into the exact house (where they lived). The attackers ran off when someone I was with shouted when we saw what was happening.

    A few weeks later I got a letter saying that they had closed the investigation as they "had no leads to go on".

    Couldn't be bothered I guess. I very much doubt they actually visited the house. Maybe a description, 3 eye witnesses + the victim and the address they were seen running into does not constitute a "lead"?

    (The guy who got attacked was ok, a small cut to the head which looked worse than it was. He didn't know the attackers and the area was somewhat infamous for racially motivated attacks - what are you doing walking down our street. type thing.)
  7. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    The only other person to call in could have been the victim as we were the last people to exit, but since they didn't ask for any details I don't see how they would know for certain if it was the same crime or different (there are at least 8 exits to the subway)

    I am wondering if the breakdown was from the 911 operator not giving a crap, or if due to procedure they wouldn't open a case if a witness wasn't on scene. Either way very disappointed as I wouldn't be surprised to see those guys go on to try again later in the evening.
  8. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    It's tough to say why. Judging by the fact the victim left without pursuing any police action may have been a significant part of it. This is why it's so important to follow up with the police. If there's no victim it makes it awfully difficult if not impossible to pursue charges in many instances.

    How did you know the guy was being mugged? Sure he might've told you that, but there's two sides to every story. Did they take, attempt to take, or demand anything from him? If not, in many cases this just becomes assault rather than robbery. Judging by the fact that he left he didn't sound badly injured or even injured at all so even that would be hard to pursue, especially with no victim.

    It could be the reverse as well - he was starting stuff with them and got lumped up. Wouldn't be the first time for that type of incident by any means.
  9. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    As I exited the station turnstyles I clocked the two guys involved. They were coming into the station from the West 1 Exit, the Victim was behind me and my wife, we left through the East 1 Exit (opposite) as we turned the corner on the stairs we heard noises coming from the stairs behind, lasted for a couple of seconds. I paused, turned and went to check out what was happening. As I hit the bottom of the stairs the victim came up, obviously in a bit of state of shock 'those understandable naughty word tried to mug me, thanks for coming back'.

    There were muffled shouts along with the scuffle, and that the perps just walked into the crime scene as the victim walked into it makes me believe it to be a robbery.

    MORE IMPORTANTLY - What does it matter if it was a random assault rather than a mugging? Shouldn't the cops be made aware of this and shouldn't 911 try to help garner details for the cops?

    The purpose of the call was to alert LEO that two men just committed a crime in this area, and they might do it again- get a presence there to deter. I don't care if it can be pursued in court due to the victim leaving the scene (who is going to stand at a dark subway stop after just being attacked anyway?)
  10. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Just playing the Devil's advocate, but here's some issues with it. You have one report of this incident, but no victim or other corroborating information. They could dispatch an officer to go investigate, but even if he sees the two males matching the exact description he can only go and conduct what in legal terms is a mere encounter. If they don't want to talk to him or show ID or just up and walk away, there's not much the officer can do unless he gets something else to work with.

    We get 911 calls all the time of a similar nature. I got dispatched to a "homicide suspect" standing by the corner. While on my way there I got updated that the caller said the guy must be one because he's black. Can I now just legally stop someone just because of skin color? Of course not. This is why a victim is invaluable to police work and why apathy on the public's part is so frustrating.

    By all accounts the dispatcher should have gotten a description and dispatched a car or two. They still could have without the description but if it's a busy night and all available officers are on calls of a higher priority there's not much else they can do with it unfortunately.
  11. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Here's what they should have done in my naive world:

    Taken a description of the two men, asked for my name and contact and assured me that they would dispatch.
    Dispatch, and alert local precinct that there was an attempted mugging/assault at the time and location that I provided.

    Now, I am not saying to stop and search every pair of black teens fitting the height description, I am saying get out of the patrol car and walk around the subway station, ride the train a stop or two.

    Then, if from this increased exposure they do happen to find two men fitting their description engaged in a subsequent activity they could at least try to see if they were also involved in the earlier attack, and if so they could be charged accordingly- could make quite the difference to their sentence IMO.
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I oncE had my house taken over by yobs between the ages of 16-19 once. About nine of them piled in through the door, I was expecting a fiend of a friend to be there but no. So after around 6 hours I managed to call the police, they showed up 45 minutes later, after I had already fought my way out, with my father who arrived before the police. Afterwards when the police came and everything calmed down, I asked them if hey would get put in jail/Press charges (I can't remember the exact words I used). And the officer basically said "nah, if they do it repeatedly then something will be done then." (again, I'm paraphrasing).

    Just shows it's not just America :p
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    A lot of assumptions here. If it happened in the subway, there's a good chance it was caught on surveillance, right? So the police may already have been aware. Or the victim may have called the police already or the police were overwhelmed that night and since no one was in immediate danger, it didn't warrant immediate investigation.
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    It took you 6 hours to get out of your own house and call the police?

    And 45 minutes is pretty good for a non-urgent call. If you want an immediate response, you need to hit up some buzzwords. If you'd said "And I think one of them had a big knife", then you wouldn't have been waiting 45 minutes.
  15. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    No. I don't think there is surveillance and even if there is it isn't monitored, more referred to later. The victim may have called already, but I called within 5 mins of the crime.

    There is a difference between the police and 911 operator, the operator should take the information needed for the police (IMO).

    The police are plentiful and shouldn't be 'overwhelmed' there are a lot of cops in this city and a precinct within 5 mins walking distance from the crimescene.
  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    "That's not a knife"

    [ame=""]Crocodile Dundee - That's not a knife - YouTube[/ame]
  17. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Maybe you should find out how to raise a complaint. Its the only way you'll get answers. You reported a violent crime and the emergency operator brushed you off.
  18. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    That's insane. I'd be enacting castle doctrine here.
  19. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Your name and contact details are a must.

    The descriptions and last direction of travel for the perps ..

    Description of the victim ..

    That is the minimum the operator should have obtained and passed to the dispatched units.

    Marked and unmarked vehicles should have been sent to locate the suspects ...detain for a search at the very least ..

  20. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Without getting too in-depth, needless to say 911 dispatchers occasionally do drop the ball in getting officers important information, especially when they're overworked and overtired. At least once a night we typically ask them a question they need to call back the complainant and try to verify or get more information from. That's the problem getting second hand information.

    Depending on the city, but many have Port Authority departments that actually take care of the subways, buses, busways, and the like whose main job is to patrol that area. They could have dispatched out the general description, but without a victim they might not have felt they needed a witness either. Not what I would do, but to each his own.

    If they do get them doing it again and can charge them for that one, charging them for the one you were a party to will be difficult as then they can't find the victim. This is why I constantly urge people to file reports. It may be more work for me, but in the long run it's the only way of effectively tracking and catching these knobs.

    Don't get me wrong mattt, it's just as frustrating to officers too. Not surprisingly many rarely make it their entire time to be eligible for retirement because of such issues.

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