If you compare the rulesets of sumo and what happens in the matches to the ruleset of moving step and what happens in the matches. Well you'de have to be one ignorant moron to not see the similarities. The only rule that you don't often see in tai chi is where you are allowed to grab for the legs - other than that it is very comparible to many many forms of folk wrestling around the globe And FYI If you don't like how i use terminology, you can **** off!
Ok, post up a vid of both so we can see side-by-side what you are talking about. Oh, and save the attitude champ, I'm not impressed. At all.
What? I'm not trying to impress you champ - LOL. You are not as important as you think.. Didn't I already post quite a lot of vids on this thread? (or one similar) Go find the tai chi push h ands competition ones and compare them yourself to other styles of wrestling including sumo. I'm not talking here about what you think is better or what level you think they show. You are the one complaining about my use of terminology CHAMP. So you show me why it is unjustified in YOUR opinion. ok? That's how it works. Otherwise you know what to do right. Impress you my ass. Your smart ass trolling bs is the last thing I need on a Monday morning - do you follow me around on here or something. Why don't you just go and report me to the mods, it's what you're good at.
Follow you around? Before today I hadn't posted here for weeks. What the hell is wrong with you? If you want to talk out your ass, go ahead, but don't get your panties in a bunch if you have to answer a few questions about it, champ. Something tells me you don't know a hell of a lot about wrestling. I'm good at reporting you to the mods? When the hell have I reported you to the mods? Are you paranoid or something? Try the decaf, champ. Oh, and I couldn't give less of a crap what you 'need' on a Monday morning, or any other morning of the week.
You reported me to the mods on a kung fu thread about groundfighting in kung fu (or lack of it) because I made a joke about grappling you didn't like. Oh and what questions have you asked anyway..? It's trolling, nothing more. So what the hell do you expect, I don't owe you any politeness.
Your paranoia missed the mark, pal. I don't know who "reported" you (I can't imagine who would have a problem with the posts of such a prince ) but it wasn't me. The only joke I don't like here is you.
Hardly paranoia - you went to great lengths to let me know what you thought of that comment. Then I get Pmed by the mods that there was a complaint - you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes. But hey, it's past.. and it might have been someone else for all I know. You're free to put me on ignore, so do it please. That is if you can pull yourself together and stop sending me love notes via PM..
No you can search for the vids yourself, why should I do the work for you ? I'm saying taiji moving step push hands competition is a form of wrestling. You object to that use of terminology, You havn't even said why. So you tell me why you object - and if you want demonstrate why it isn't wrestling and why I shouldn't call it that, go ahead. Otherwise, I have absolutely no interest in 'proving' something to you, that's just in your head. You neither deserve it or are worth it as far as I'm concerned. And i really, truly don't feel there is any thing contentious here, other than to you, for some strange reason. Which is why I am asking for you to at least explain you objections. You seem to only want wrestling to be defined by your standards - tough, it doesn't work like that. Wrestling is a generic term for a way of fighting - not a specific style or standard or ruleset. Not necessarily, but it can describe some of those things too. If you want to see vids take a look at thread " Is it good fajin?" - I posted about 4-5 videos of what I think is taiji wrestling. You are free to take a look and compare them yourself to other types of wrestling. Anyone can. You really think I'm misusing the term wrestling - then I suggest you demonstrate that I am. Otherwise you need to crawl back under your bridge, troll.
Of course, a troll's objective is to get people to do as much work as possible with minimal effort... so "Baichi" is doing quite well here, if you just compare the word count of his posts and the responses, if "Baichi" just push a little bit harder then he might sound a little more intelligent than what his name says. :banana:
Just as I thought. That is the typical refrain of someone with no ability or intention of supporting the crap he spews.
Well you say crap - why is what I said crap ? All you got right is "my style is better than yours" or "that's not real wrestling" or other such small minded lameness. All you have to do is look at another thread, already told you where to look - I'll even tell you the post - post 25. Then you can google for other wrestling styles and make comparisons till your hearts content (as if you don't know..). Heck post up a couple yourself. Anyone can do this - so smart man - what am I hiding here, what am i not supporting? It's all there for anyone to see for themselves what crap I'm talking.. It only takes a few taps of a keyboard - so here I am ready to be shown my errors, willing to be educated. By you, by anyone - no problem. So what's stopping you eh? You have an issue with terminology - It's small minded. It's not inability on my part at all. It's dislike for trolls who don't have any relevent point? But please prove me wrong an tell every one or show a. what your point is and b. why what I said was crap. It's up to you from here. You incapability and reluctance to do these things thus far, only highlight exactly how much of a big useless troll you are.
I didn't make an "assertion", I shared my opinion there's a difference. making commentary on a forum doesn't mean I'm making assertions. Do you think this is a court of law, or we are taking part in some bigwig exercise in science ? My opinion hasn't changed, and I don't have a problem explaining my opinion. Even to you. All I asked is what exactly to you object to regards the opinion I've shared. Your first objection was regards terminology. So let's start there. I quote: I said (my so called assertion(s)..) To which you replied: If we want to know what the term wrestling means we should consult the dictionary then right? If you have another suggestion please feel free to share it - first time for everything.. Well actually this is from wiki, one of the first things to come up on a search. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. The following is the page from dictionary.com re. the term wrestling http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wrestling Now sumo. The ruleset or what the matches entail, culled from this page.http://www.sumotalk.com/rules.htm From there we can get a good idea of the goals of a sumo match and the means employed. We can continue to look at similar for tai chi. then compare some vids of those and a couple other wrestling/ grappling styles. To follow.
Ok the following are some rules from 'free moving step push hands'. Taken from the last European championships. An event I attended and took part in myself. I'm going to post what i think is relevent and then post the pdf link. the competition area is a square of 4 x 4 metres Allowed techniques in free moving step : Low sweeps Throws at waist height and below Leg tripping Safe locks holding around the opponents back Grabbing the legs is permitted. Of course methods of tai chi are permitted. There's not much point going into too much detail/translation - but they basically consist if various pushes, redirections, pulls and butting/barging with the hips and shoulders/ combinations of them. 1 point is awarded for a foot outside area 2 points for both feet outside 4 points for any part of body other than feet on the ground 8 points for sending someone flying out of the area. So we can see from the above that although the rulesets are not identical - i never claimed that or that is was my opinion! The rulesets - theryby the means and the goals share a good similarity - that's pretty much my opinion and still is. Good enough to justify (in my opinion) both to be called forms of wrestling. Different forms - because the rulesets are not identical. Ok i mentioned freestyle wrestling as well, so here are some rules for comparison. http://www.saskschools.ca/~yshhs/Sc...FF/Mark's Stuff/Freestyle Wrestling Rules.doc The major difference I see from these rules compared to Sumo and 'free moving step' is the use of pins or holds to score. There are other difference of course, but that's the major one I think. But I don't see how any of the above so far contradicts or makes dubious my stated opinion. But please feel free to clarify. So now onto your request for some back to back clips for comparisons.. . I'm going to stop talking soon.. I'v provided (or am going to) everything i think is needed to support my opinion and explains pretty much why i hold it and expressed it in the terms that i did. Now the least you owe me is tell me what your problem is with the opinions I've expressed. What do you disagree with specifically and why? otherwise I can't see anything constructive coming from this. All you've done thus far is express your 'disagreement' and said I've talked crap. So if this is your opinion can you say a bit more than words to the effect of "you're talking crap" I would also like to add that we usually follow our own ruleset in class when practicing . So for example hip throws using higher holds on the back or headlock with leg sweep are fair game. edit* I'd also like to add these are but three examples of MANY forms of wrestling (folk) styles competitions that go on round the world that share similsr goals and means. At least enough in my opinion to all be considered as forms of wrestling. A question to you would be if it is your opinion why is tai chi competition (ruleset posted) excluded from that terminology ? some clips. tai chi [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJ_VKiz6No&feature=related"]YouTube - TaiChi 太極推手比賽[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg-5D8Hkcv0&feature=related"]YouTube - push hand 65kg[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCJfTTBsvHU"]YouTube - Moving Step Push Hands - Master Frank Ding[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7u0tGxt1m4&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - tui shou[/ame] some, sumo and wrestling examples. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W26m7uSsPFg"]YouTube - Sumo Takanohana vs Akebono[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEe-UIvftUg"]YouTube - The strongest sumo wrestler Asashouryuu[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3w1mY9Xee8"]YouTube - European Greco-Roman Wrestling Championships[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-BPFcYLZQA&feature=related"]YouTube - 白鵬 Hakuho VS æœé’é¾ Asashouryuu 2008 åˆå ´æ‰€[/ame]
Ah, Cloudhandz... based on the first two clips, I can say that the secret of doing good in Tai Chi push hands is to wear a sleeveless shirt!!! :evil: I can't believe you let the secret out.
Those sleeveless shirt people are actually from the national wrestling team of China, the other one's a actual Tai Chi people who were like WTF in that competition...
