Morote (uchi) Uke? The second arm doesn't really provide much additional structural support and, to be honest, if you try and hammer-block anything that's too powerful for one arm, you're gonna end up damaging your blocking arm if you hold it in the way. Once again, however, morote uke is a staple of kata, which leads me to believe that it had a good use at some point. So... all the people who answered my manji gamae question: What's morote uke really all about?
Not a Karate guy, but we have a block like that, the blocking arm is reinforced by the other arm placed against either the elbow joint or forearm to reinforce/strengthen it, it's usually a quick block where something better couldn't be performed, or as a block against a kick where you need extra strength and so reinforce the blocking arm.
Whenever we show this in bunkai we use it as a simultaneous block and counter. The blocking arm makes uchi uke abd the "supporting arm" is a ura zuki. Hope this helps.
Well, I didn't answer the manji gamae question... Wow, this is like those TV shows where they show you some random ancient object and you have to guess what it is. Perhaps that assisting arm is not to provide power or support, but to easily facilitate evasive movement? Using that second arm makes you turn your whole upper half, giving the blocking arm a rotating motion. We have this block, and I'd like to know why and what for too.
Actualy something else has just occured to me that i think warrants another post. I've recently started to train with a kobudo group as a bit of extra training , last time we were doing nunchuck techniques and one of the blocks uses a similar hand position to morote uke , so maybe there is some crossover thee somewhere?
Yeah, I'd go for something like that. That's interesting! I think I've seen that in a book somewhere. This is where Dave Humm would've come in handy if he hadn't gone off to Bullshido to swear at people. Wonder if Anth can enlighten us on this one... That is quite an interesting point though - I've often idly wondered about whether some of the more advanced kata are desgined with integrated weapons application. Is it co-incidence that "jitte" is the name of a kata and of a pronged weapon? And what's the kata where you mime striking with a staff? Is that Meikyo? It's one of the ones that I don't know.
I think of the support arm as a "hidden fist" Instead of executing the morote with the reinforcement think of it as a blocking with the lead arm on contact slide upwards into a backfist to the face as you punch to the solar plexus with the other hand. Simultaneous block and strike....
Interesting question that is going to have my head in bits now when I should be doing some assignments for Uni :bang: I will have a think about it and possibly ask one of our 4th dans about it when I get back to karate a week tomorrow. As for the nunchaku bit, I've warned the flatmates that the nunchaku will be in use while I think about it. One thought about it is that surely it would be better done as at the start of Bassai Dai (ie with the reinforcing hand open against the forearm) for blocking. More area on the reinforcement, actually on the blocking part of the arm instead of fist around the elbow area.
My dear Moose... I am hurt that you've asked this question given that you already have a perfectly decent inside and outside application of this move et tu bassai? :cry: I hope I'm stating the obvious when I point out that the 'assisting arm' cannot reinforce the technique given its position on the elbow. It is biomechanically impossible. If the hand were open and further up the forearm (as it is in another Shotokan receiver whose name I am too lazy at present to look up) then it might be able to do that - but why on earth would you? What would possess you to use such a vulnerable hand position that left your head open? :bang: My prime use for this is a bi directional strike. One arm strikes in a slightly circular fashion to the temple and attracts all the interest - a fast person might stop it. The other fist simultaneously wallops the floatng ribs in a direct upper cut ~(the knee of the advancing leg can also take out the thigh or inside knee at the same time). I'd usually launch this either pre-emptively or from within one arm's length - ie normal kick off range for a real fight. I predominantly train this move both inside and outside a grab a la Heian Sandan or Heian Yondan.
Another generic movement that can be mapped to many different applications. One application is the wrist break. Grasp the hand as if to do a wrist takedown (kotegaeshi in Aikido). Instead of kotegaeshi, the rear hand strikes through the back of the hand (this breaks the wrist). The focus is to drive the opponent's own fingers into his eyes. For pretty obvious reasons, this application was dropped from practice in many systems because of the actual and potential risk of injuries during training it. Not only with the wrist break but driving the opponent's own fingers into their eyes was also hard to train safely at any intensity. I am reluctant to post applications like this, I'm trusting people will be responsible in their actions.
The chap second from the left in the photo is doing something similar to what i was thinking of , but i remember the back hand being much closer to the forearm. And john why so upset? I think we're all agreed that the two hands should be seperated it's just the nature of the technique that's varied
this technique is on my "list of things i would never, ever do outside of kata." i personally have found no conceivable situation in which it would be a reasonable thing to do.
Im not a real Karate practitioner, I do Tang Soo Do and we practice pretty much the same Katas as Shotokan. We would never use that move as just a block, personally I dont see the point in reinforcing a block it seems a bit cumbersome. like all basics and bits from Katas you can find loads of applications for each move, heres one that we do. Attacker grabs you lapel/shoulder from the front, the horizontal arm(left in pic) strikes down on the attacking arm around the elbow, this should bring thier head forward and down. At the same time as the head comes down, upppercut with your other hand to thier chin. You could change the uppercut to a hammerfist to the temple too if you want.
A reinforced block is also a strike, you put more into it with that extra oompff behind it and it hits harder. Though as stated by pauli, I'd never even use such a thing.
I saw it explained as a simaltaneous lock and strike to the radial.... I can't recall the specifics of it, though. It always struck me as one of the more esoteric karate movements.
Marc I'm just grumpy as you and Moosey seem to have forgotten the close range blitz application that we played with several times at Bracknell (and those even nastier folow throughs). The first picture is inside a la Sandan, the second outside a la Yondan.
I like that one, you could follow on with the knee strike and a neck crank from pinan/hiean no 4(yondan?).
