McDojo....right or wrong, yes or no?

Now, to be quite honest, I am getting pretty fed up with the sanctimonious B/S that has transpired on this forum with regards to 'so-called' McDojo's and I would like to hear what problems people have against them....apart from out-an-out jealousy that is.

My opinion is that it doesn't matter how many dojo's you have, student's you have or how much money you make teaching...that is nobody else's business.
it's quality that counts.

Budo-Taijutsu is no longer the great secret it once was which means that anyone with the benevolent spirit should be entitled to train and we are no longer an elitest organisation.

Where it becomes a concern is when the actual McDojo school is watering down the training....for whatever reason. However I neglect to see how that can ever happen, so long as the professionalism and desire to teach true authentic Budo within the Bujinkan system is there.

Personally, if I was starting training again and there was a so-called 'McDojo' near me, so long as they had the full credentials and authority from Japan, with the opportunity to travel and attend seminars, plus the quality of teaching, I would have no hesitation in training with them, even if they had 150+ dojos nationwide.....and boasted of the fact.

I think it would be a good idea for every country to elect a 'Standards Evaluation Commitee' within the Bujinkan made up of several Shihan (or that country's most senior instructors), who visit dojo's on a random basis and watch how the instruction is carried out.
A report would then be written and a copy sent to Soke and the Hombu in Noda as well as being kept in the relevent files of the country concerened.
An appraisal would then be sent to the relevant Bujinkan organisation indicating various criteria which needed improving.


- Sorry Genbukan and Jinenkan lads and lassies, but when I was thinking this out, I only had Bujinkan in mind. Maybe it's a subject that you guys might have issues with, and if so, please feel free to comment.

 

Did someone say your school was a mcdojo or something?

 

No, it's just that I feel the whole McDojo concept shouldn't exist.
I'm fed up with the hypocrisy of people who maintain they are trying to reach a higher level of being, spirituality and understanding, telling everyone what true budo exists for and yet are sinking in the quick-sand of jealousy and resentment.

 

Well if you found a dojo that did all that stuff, than I would'nt call it a mcdojo. But that is just me. Thats a good idea, like Bujinkan Quality Control.

 

I think it could work for all martial arts...one sure fire way of finding out who the frauds are.
Totally authentic, registered and traceable.

 

hmmmmmmmmmmm....!!

Quality control is difficult with so many individual parts but a positive idea and if Soke had wanted it that I'm sure we would have it.


You seem quite fired up about this Iain, does it relate to something? what is the fuel that burns so brightly?

I could'nt care less whether an Instuctor had 1 Dojo or 500, as long as the quality was there.

Running A Dojo as a business is a fine art in itself.

I'll explain.

I teach for free, the money the students pay is Insurance + Hall hire divided by number of students and occasionally i get some fuel money.
This alllows ME to concentrate on teaching and not worry about number of students through the door. If the students are up to there grade they get graded(well they have to be pass their next grade before i grade them, but thats just me!). it allows me not to accept anyone as my rent, mortgage whatever is not dependant on them.


Now if you teach for a living it can be more complicated, you have to make a living, it puts more pressure on. But if the standards are there and the students are happy to pay thats fine. Its only when Instructors give grades away because they get cash for the grades that some may fail their students, standards drop etc then it becomes a McDojo.

In all goes according to plan I will be teaching in Gloucester, Worcestershire, Shropshire in the next few months. All on the same basis insurance + hall hire divided by students. Gloucester is limited to 12 students then waiting list. The new ones 15 students then waiting list.

Remember you can always ignore those that irritate!

Gary

 

I really must disagree with the whole quality control / standards idea. If your dojo is good, you will remain a student there. If it is bad, you will eventually leave for another one. But to have some outside individual or group of individuals come in and TELL me it's good or bad is frought with danger. Like it or not, the Bujinkan, like any large organization, is filled with large egos, spitefulness personalities and petty behaviour. The result is politics at its truest and meanest. It not hard to imagine all the possible negative outcomes. If Hatsumi Sensei, who I am certain is cognizant of the nature of HIS organization, wanted dojo police, he would have already instituted them long ago

 

I've heard Soke say that he's not in favor of Bujinkan instructors teaching for a living -- at least until they've had a full range of life experience -- because it's too easy for them to "lose their balance" in their lives. He's also mentioned the tendency to become dependent on students for income, resulting in the perceived need to give them what they think they want rather than what one knows they need, in order to keep them coming in and paying tuition.

There's always been pressure to make the Bujinkan like other martial arts: to have standardized skill sets for belt ranks, a standardized training curriculum, etc. People want to try to make it all easily comprehensible so they can feel comfortable. . .and my personal feeling is that when that happens, it dies.

The whole thing reminds me very strongly of another situation I read about in my youth, and which occurred in another place long ago.

 

So, Hatsumi is Samuel. Right?

 

I`ll repeat again what Nagato Sensei said " we need bad instructors, be cause that`s where the bad students go", ( i personally would take that to include Mcdojo`s as well)

I agree though, we can`t really police our organisation as much as we`d like, BUT, what WE can do is to be seen to act correctly, train regularly in japan, impart that knowledge within our dojo`s, treat our students with respect, those that are truly looking for our art will find us, those that are looking for the easy way out, the false promises and lies of the Mcdojo`s will find them, i wish them good luck.

 

Norm, i asked you not to bring me up again on the net!!!

Ours cant be that bad then, i have had 2 leave in the last year and they were both kids who were not really interested so thats not too bad then!!

 

A McDojo is not a class with many students, an expensive class, or a belt factory or a class affiliated with a large organisation. These are simply warning signs of a potential McDojo.

McDojos are by definition "a pejorative term used by some martial artists to describe a martial arts school where image or profit is of a higher importance than technical standards".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo

This means that they place their image and profit above the quality of their training. Thus McDojos DO exist and we should be wary of them.

We don't label McDojos out of arrogance or egotism, we label them to caution others about poor quality training. We aren't feeding our own pride, we're helping others by pointing out places where the quality of teaching is not up to snuff.

 

I think ANY MA's is better than none. As long as the instructor isn't spouting off about how they are now "experts" or something. Everyone does MA's for different reasons, self defense is only one of them. I know one dancer who is in our class who loves the athletic expression of the kicks and such. She SOARS on her spin kicks. But in a self defense situation, she'd get killed. But to each her/his own. People who complain about McDojos (I've done it too) just are pointing out the deficiencies in different schools.

 

Well, I'm sorry to say, but too bad if you don't like the concept, cause they're out there, and you gotta accept it.

Now I don't train in Ninjutsu.

But if there was a Ninjutsu dojo by me that said we can teach the ancient, deadly ways of the Ninja, possibly even the Dim Mak. We will also teach you to become so deadly with weapons, others will cower.

And then for the instructors and master it said something like I have 9 dan in Ninjutsu, 8 dan Karate, 7 dan Jujutsu, ect ect.

Then you got a problem, cause that's a McDojo.

 

Well maybe the first part about the "secret, deadly techniques" is bad, but if the instructor is that rank in all that stuff and has proof, then i dont see a problem with it.

 

A common symptom of bullshido/mcdojo is an instructor with a lot of honorary/fake belt ranks from a diploma mill, 'sokeship council' or stuff like that, done with the purpose of eking more money from the gullible in mind.

Oh, and some people aren't grasping the difference between Bullshido and McDojo...

Bullshido: fraudulent teachings, questionable background, god-awful training, style over substance, claims of being teh d34dl3y.

McDojo: Martial arts school that values commercialism over quality of instruction. You pays your money, you gets your black belt.

The two are often linked, but because something is Bullshido doesn't necessarily mean it's a McDojo - someone teaching Bullshido to his or her students for no charge isn't running a McDojo.

 

If they are in their 30's or 40's and they say that they have 9th, 8th, 7th degrees in like 5 or more MA's, it's probably bull.

 

Yeah, i guess if they are that young then that could be a problem.

 

Like here's my school.

I believe my Master is in his 40's. (I believe he's 40, don't know)

And he is 5th degree in TKD and HKD, 3rd degree in Kumdo, and 1st degree in Judo. He has been training for a very long time. He also has a BA from Yong In University, a very good school in South Korea.

The Grandmaster (don't know much about him), but I think he has a 9th degree in HKD or TKD, but I'm not sure, he probably has more degrees. (Also the Grandmaster is older then my Master)

 

Iain, I've raked around for many years to find instructors that fit in with my availability.
Now , my current chief instuctor (and yours), offers classes most nights fairly locally. This gives me a chance of continuity of training, that's what I need.
Mc Dojo? Make your own mind up. Bullshido? He's a 9th dan that goes to Japan twice a year (so that would be no then).
I'm happy, if anyone else has a problem, I really don't care