Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Labatt, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. Cougar_v203

    Cougar_v203 4th surgery....Complete!

    "Rule number 17. WhiteWizard is to be kicked on sight"


    *kicks whitewizard in the forehead* :D
     
  2. Cain

    Cain New Member

    The whole Matrix triology sucked IMO, everyone liked the first matrix because we did'nt know what to expect, the story sucked big time, they went overboard trying to complicate it.

    And what kind of an actor is Keanu anyway?????? They should replace keanu with a wooden plank with a smile drawn on it's face then at least the plank would have an excuse to have the same dumb expression everytime......[not my line, courtesy of maddox ;)]

    The action woulkd be good if John Woo directed it but no the only positive thing about the movie would be the speacial effects.

    |Cain|
     
  3. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    The Matrix Trilogy was writed at the same time, sometime in the mid 90s. Each one have a theme to it, First one was Birth, Second was Life, and Third was Death.

    Secondly, you guys have to realize that the Matrix is a Geek Movie. A lot of the concepts for the movie with stolen from a lot of cyber punk lit (Willam Gibson mostly) and HardCore Scifi (Most notablity the Neo blind and getting "new" site was from the Book Children of Dune). The Matrix should of Never of got mainstream, it only did because the movie effects were new and pretty, and MA's talk about it cause if has fight scences.

    I have very happy was the trilogy and among by Favorite Movies. But again I am a cyber punk.
     
  4. WhiteWizard

    WhiteWizard Arctic Assasain

    Don't know how you can say the first film is a complete story so they free who they think is the one so what does that mean anything itself no. There is nothing wrong with complicating a plot to challenge the viewer thats the problem with too many films now lets make a simple crappy plot that satisfies all the people who's collective brain power may allow them to turn on a light(thats not aimed at anyone here).

    You also have to remember that films 2 and 3 were actually one film. okay they over did the CGI a bit and made a few bits cheesy looking but there was a level of thought put into it okay they have taken things from other stories but is there anything truely original in this world everything comes from somewhere or other built on top of something or something changed about a bit
     
  5. SK12879

    SK12879 New Member

    Yeah, I'm a computer geek too. It's not that I didn't understand the trilogy. It's that I didn't think the 2nd movies lived up to the first one. Revolutions was especially weak. And it wasn't all sci-fi. There was enough religion and philosophy in those movies to satisfy all but the most hardcore philosophy freaks.

    Yes, Cain...Keanu is a ****ty actor, but he actually did a decent job in The Matrix. His lack o' acting skills showed through more in the 2nd and 3rd films.
     
  6. totalkayos

    totalkayos Valued Member

    i think the first film could be a complete film on it's own. the second and third ones did't do to much. at the end of the third film i was asking myself where are we now in relation to the first movie. was anything accomplished?
     
  7. Greg-VT

    Greg-VT Peasant

    I saw it today.
    I didnt really like it. The first and second ones where better.
     
  8. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    He was the toughie general guy leading the dudes in robo-suits who was just content to kick a whole lot of tin plated tail. He was just about the only guy in the movie who wasnt caught up in some overdeveloped philosophical dilemma. He didnt care about Neo, or his powers, or the oracle, he just cared about saving the city by blasting robots. A guy who keeps his mind on the task at hand, my kind of guy.
     
  9. WhiteWizard

    WhiteWizard Arctic Assasain

    but maybe it served its purpose then by questioning if the whole war between robots and machines had a point
     
  10. totalkayos

    totalkayos Valued Member

    maybe that is the point. i think even if the ending of revolutions had been more definative it would have been better. did you guys see the animatrix. it was kind of cool. it expalined how the war between machine and man started.
     
  11. SK12879

    SK12879 New Member

    Yeah, I've got Animatrix. Out of the 9 films, 4 or 5 of them were cool. Others were kinda meaningless or just out there. Final Flight of the Osiris was cool as was the one concerning Zero One.
     
  12. aikiMac

    aikiMac "BJJ Over 40" club member Moderator Supporter

    I saw it last night. I didn't really like it. The first and second ones were MUCH better. The only parts I liked in #3 were all scenes where Agent Smith talked (including his human clone Bane). Smith made the movie.

    #3 left more questions than it answered. Like, how did Naomi and her crew live? I was sure they died in #2, but here they are again, as if nothing happened. No explanation was given. And at the end of #2 the machines were practically on top of Zion, but yet, wait, nope, the machines are still 24-hours from Zion. And didn't Smith kill that cute little girl? But she showed up again at the end. And what's with this "peace" ? How long will that last? What are the terms? What, we just all put down our guns and pretend the other side isn't really there? No, that's not correct, because exiles like Morpheus are still going to be doing the red pill/blue pill thing. Did Neo die? What are the machines going to do with Neo's body?

    This movie sucked, except for Agent Smith. He just beat out Hannibal Lecter for Favorite Villlian Of All Time.
     
  13. SK12879

    SK12879 New Member

    Let's see...No, Naomi and her team didn't die. That was the 3rd ship that was destroyed. Smith didn't kill Sati (the little girl), the Chinese dude, or the Oracle, he just assumed their bodies with that weird hand in the chest thing. It only destroyed Neo because of the chaos/order thing....Neo is order, Smith is chaos. From a balance perspective, one cannot exist without it's opposite and in destroying Neo, Smith destroyed himself.

    The peace makes no sense. The machines are willing to lay down and wait for Neo to fulfill his end of the bargain. It would be more like "we'll call off the dogs when you destroy the virus." If you noticed the construction/destruction (depending on your view) in the background at the end, that would be The Matrix. Based on what The Architect said, it would seem that the humans were being freed and a peace will resume between the humans and machines as existed before (maybe??).
     
  14. Greg-VT

    Greg-VT Peasant

    All that was explained in the video game.

    "You'll never get the full Matrix story"


    ....without playing the game.

    They saw the Oracle (as they said in Rev), they jacked out of the Matrix, and then got attacked by Squids. They crashed, blew the EMP, Squiddies died, they were stuck in a non operational Hovercraft.

    Thats the end of the game.

    Then you meet up with them again in the last Movie.
     
  15. totalkayos

    totalkayos Valued Member

    i think the characters name is niobie not naomie, and i think the peace will last as long as the humans want it to. it was the humans after all the started the war. acording to the animatrix the machines wanted to live in peace all along. as to what they are going to use as a power source now that humans are going to be freed, i don't know. and what are the machnes going to do. tell everyone in the matrix the truth and those that want out will be let out? are they still going to grow human crops. and something else i was thinking about,wouldn't all the people in the human crop look the same. if i were the machines i would just keep cloning people if i were using them for energy. i would care if the dna got watered down or diluted out. i all they have do is lie there and make energy. anyone esle ever think about this.
     
  16. ratman

    ratman Valued Member

    ********************************************************************
    > > > > Neo is a machine, kinda. He is a human with enhanced genetics,
    > > > enhanced implants, and a machine programmed mind (probably based on a "The
    > > > One" template program). That's why, at the end of Revolutions, when his
    > > > body is being taken away, he is shown as an orange glow. The orange glow
    > > > is how
    > > > > the machines see each other, and therefore how they see Neo. It is also
    > > > how Neo sees Smith inside Bane... he is seeing the machine program of
    > > > Smith inside Bane's mind, and therefore it is an orange glow in the shape
    > > > of the Smith.
    > > > >
    > > > > But the orange glow isn't the only reason to believe Neo is a
    > > > machine. Throughout the trilogy other hints are given, such as: "His
    > > > neural kinetics are way above normal.", "He's a machine.", "Your five
    > > > predecessors were by design based on a similar predication...", etc.
    > > > >
    > > > > So if Neo is a machine, why was he created (as all machines must
    > > > have a purpose)? He was created by the Oracle and the Architect to be The
    > > > One. As the Architect explains to him: "Your life is the sum of a
    > > > remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the
    > > > Matrix... Your
    > > > > five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a
    > > > contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to
    > > > the rest of your species, facilitating the function of The One... The
    > > > function of The One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary
    > > > dissemination
    > > > > of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program."
    > > > >
    > > > > Translated, the Architect is explaining that Neo was designed to be
    > > > a religious figure to the freed humans, thus causing them to put their
    > > > faith (hope) in Neo and to rally around him ("...sum of a remainder...").
    > > > This helps to ensure that the freed humans are focused on Neo instead of
    > > > war,
    > > > > and to keep them all together in one place, Zion (which was built by the
    > > > machines for this purpose also). Neo is a form of control in the real
    > > > world.
    > > > >
    > > > > And just to make sure that Neo carries out his part of their plan,
    > > > the machines programmed him with "... a contingent affirmation that was
    > > > meant to create a profound attachment to the [humans]." This, along with
    > > > his enhanced abilities and the "guidance" of the Oracle, keeps him on the
    > > > > intended course.
    > > > >
    > > > > The Architect also states that "The function of The One is now to
    > > > return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you
    > > > carry, reinserting the prime program." This simply means that The One
    > > > program in Neo's mind is the most important (prime) program in the Matrix,
    > > > and that
    > > > > now that his mission (purpose) is complete, he must return to the source
    > > > for deletion (all machines must have a purpose). The phrase "... temporary
    > > > dissemination..." means that the The One program will be used again in the
    > > > next version of the Matrix. This is also why Neo's choice of the left door
    > > > > will destroy the Matrix, as there can be only one The One in the Matrix
    > > > at any time. By staying in the Matrix Neo is preventing it from being
    > > > reloaded, as a reload will do nothing without another The One for the next
    > > > version. (In programming terms he is the highest priority task, and he
    > > > will not
    > > > > release the Matrix program's main semaphore.)
    > > > >
    > > > > OK, so The One is a human with enhanced genetics, enhanced implants,
    > > > and a machine programmed mind, and was created by the Oracle and the
    > > > Architect to carry out a specific purpose (form of control in and out of
    > > > the Matrix) in each iteration of the Matrix. Now let's see how The One
    > > > fits in
    > > > > with the entire story of the trilogy.
    > > > >
    > > > > As is explained, the Matrix was created by the Architect, at the end
    > > > of the war with the humans, as a way to control the humans and use them as
    > > > a power source (I know, hard to believe...). The first Matrix was "...
    > > > quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime.", while
    > > > the
    > > > > second Matrix was redesigned "... to more accurately reflect the varying
    > > > grotesqueries of your nature." Basically Heaven and then Hell. In both
    > > > cases, however, no conscious choice was given to the humans as to whether
    > > > or not they wanted to believe in the reality of the Matrix. This caused
    > > > the
    > > > > majority of humans to reject the Matrix and die ("... whole crops were
    > > > lost.").
    > > > >
    > > > > To solve this problem the Oracle was created, and realized correctly
    > > > that the humans needed to be given a choice: "Thus, the answer was
    > > > stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to
    > > > investigate certain aspects of the human psyche... she stumbled upon a
    > > > solution whereby
    > > > > nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they
    > > > were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near
    > > > unconscious level." So by giving humans a choice, even at an unconscious
    > > > level that only 0.1% are ever aware of, they accepted the Matrix.
    > > > >
    > > > > Unfortunately for the machines, however, a majority of the 0.1% who
    > > > were aware of the choice usually chose the real world over the Matrix.
    > > > "While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus
    > > > creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left
    > > > unchecked
    > > > > might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program,
    > > > while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability
    > > > of disaster." The machines therefore also needed a way to control the 0.1%
    > > > of the humans who chose the real world over the Matrix, thus Zion and The
    > > > > One were created.
    > > > >
    > > > > As was explained earlier, Zion was built by the machines to ensure
    > > > that the freed humans would all gather in one place, and The One was
    > > > created to be their religious figure, helping to distract them from
    > > > renewed war with the machines. Both forms of control.
    > > > >
    > > > > But even with Zion and The One, the unpredictability of choice
    > > > ("systemic anomoly") still forced the machines to occasionally "reload"
    > > > the Matrix. This always occurs when The One reaches the Source, which he
    > > > can only do after attaining the level of power necessary for him to defeat
    > > > the
    > > > > Merovingian, obtain the Keymaker, etc. The One program is then
    > > > temporarily reinserted into the Source (machine mainframe), in preparation
    > > > for the next iteration of the Matrix. In the process the machines gain the
    > > > knowledge and experiences of The One, allowing them to better predict the
    > > > future
    > > > > behavior of the humans, and thus reduce the systemic anomolies.
    > > > >
    > > > > So that is the situation at the start of the sixth iteration of the
    > > > choice-Matrix. Luckily for the humans, however, the Oracle does not want
    > > > them to be enslaved in the Matrix any longer, or for the freed humans to
    > > > be killed. She therefore decides to take a risk and use Neo to bring about
    > > > a
    > > > > "revolution".
    > > > >
    > > > > In M1 (The Matrix) she meets with The One, Neo, as she has done in
    > > > the five previous iterations of the Matrix. Normally she simply helps
    > > > guide The One to his meeting with the Architect. Except this time the
    > > > Oracle gives Neo a special cookie, which he eats. The cookie isn't
    > > > actually a cookie,
    > > > > though, it's an upgrade to Neo's program. Since the Oracle created the
    > > > The One program, she can predict exactly what Neo will do in the future,
    > > > specifically how he will destroy Smith (from the inside, with some copying
    > > > from Neo to Smith occuring). She therefore includes in the program upgrade
    > > > code
    > > > > that will give Smith the ability to replicate himself, and for Neo and
    > > > Smith to see the future as she does.
    > > > >
    > > > > In M2 (The Matrix Reloaded) Neo plays out his role as The One,
    > > > meeting with the Architect. However, due to his love for Trinity he
    > > > chooses the left door, preventing the Matrix from reloading. This was seen
    > > > in advance by the Oracle, as she has the ability to predict Neo's behavior
    > > > (as
    > > > > explained above) as well as human behavior in general (due to the nature
    > > > of her program). She therefore told Trinity that she would fall in love
    > > > with Neo (in M1), all the while knowing it would eventually cause Neo to
    > > > choose the left door.
    > > > >
    > > > > In M3 (The Matrix Revolutions) the Oracle's plan comes to fruition.
    > > > While the machines begin their assualt on Zion (for the sixth time), Smith
    > > > continues to replicate himself throughout the Matrix. Neo, on the
    > > > otherhand, is stuck in the train station. Apparently, fulfilling his
    > > > mission to
    > > > > meet with the Architect unlocks some section of his program that allows
    > > > Neo to use his enhanced implants to once again become part of the machine
    > > > collective (perhaps because of the Oracle's upgrade?). He is therefore
    > > > able to sense and control other machines wirelessly. The first example of
    > > > this is
    > > > > when he stops the sentinels at the end of M2. Since he is not quite
    > > > ready to use his new abilities, however, his program gets stuck at the
    > > > security checkpoint of the Matrix, the train station.
    > > > >
    > > > > In the train station Neo meets with Rama Kandra, his wife, and their
    > > > daughter Sati. Rama and his wife are both machines from the real world who
    > > > can jack into the Matrix, like all other machines, and live human lives.
    > > > Sati is a program created by these two machines out of love, which Rama
    > > > > explains to Neo is not out of the grasp of the machines. They are on
    > > > their way back into the Matrix to leave Sati with the Oracle for safe
    > > > keeping, as any program without a purpose is deleted.
    > > > >
    > > > > After being rescued from the train station by Trinity, Morpheus, and
    > > > Seraph, Neo is helped out of the Matrix using the standard jack. While
    > > > aboard the Hammer he has another vision of the future, this time of the
    > > > three power lines leading from the Matrix power station to 01, the machine
    > > > city
    > > > > (he is able to see the power lines due to his newfound connection to the
    > > > machine collective). He therefore takes the Logos, along with Trinity, and
    > > > leaves for 01. Along the way he confronts the stowaway Bane (who has the
    > > > Smith program inside of him), and is blinded by him. Although blind, Neo
    > > > is
    > > > > still able to see other machines (orange glow), including the Smith
    > > > program inside Bane, which he uses to defeat Bane. He also uses his power
    > > > to control other machines to detonate the bombs fired at the Logos by the
    > > > 01 defenses.
    > > > >
    > > > > Meanwhile Smith is replicating out of control in the Matrix, and
    > > > eventually confronts the Oracle after taking over Seraph and Sati. They
    > > > have a brief conversation in which he calls her "Mom", referring to the
    > > > fact that she helped to create him (along with the Architect) as well as
    > > > Neo (part
    > > > > of his program now). The Oracle then tells Smith to "Do what you came
    > > > here to do.", so he takes over her as well. The newly formed Smith then
    > > > stands up and laughs hysterically, foreshadowing the events at the end of
    > > > the movie.
    > > > >
    > > > > Eventually the Logos crashes in 01, but not before Neo gets a
    > > > top-down view of the orange glowing city with his newfound machine-vision
    > > > (notice the fractal patterns). Unfortunately Trinity is killed in the
    > > > crash, and explains to Neo that both of them have been living on borrowed
    > > > time. Neo
    > > > > since he was ressurected by Trinity, and Trinity since she was
    > > > ressurected by Neo. Both are meant to die and Trinity is simply happy for
    > > > the oportunity this time to tell Neo how she feels about him. (But shame
    > > > on the brothers for killing off Trinity in such a lame way. Couldn't she
    > > > have at least
    > > > > died trying to save the ship, not just letting it crash!)
    > > > >
    > > > > Neo then leaves the Logos and enters the machine building into which
    > > > it crashed (the building is seen in the same orange glowing
    > > > machine-vision). He is then confronted by the Deus Ex Machina, who knows
    > > > that Neo is the only one who can stop Smith from destroying the Matrix,
    > > > but still shows
    > > > > hatred toward Neo (due to the fact that he is mostly human). After a
    > > > show of force, the Deus Ex Machina agrees to peace with the humans in
    > > > exchange for Neo's promise to destroy Smith. This causes the sentinels to
    > > > halt their attack on the Zion temple, the last holdout of the remaining
    > > > humans (the
    > > > > dock and city have already been destroyed).
    > > > >
    > > > > The machines then jack Neo into the Matrix, since he has not yet
    > > > masterred the ability to do so wirelessly (this theme of Neo having to
    > > > learn to use his new abilities runs throughout the trilogy). Neo then
    > > > confronts Smith, who says he has seen the future, and that he (the one
    > > > particular
    > > > > Smith) is the one that defeats Neo. The other Smiths (all of the other
    > > > people in the Matrix have now been taken over by him) therefore only watch
    > > > as the fight begins.
    > > > >
    > > > > After a brutal battle Neo is near defeat, but continues to fight.
    > > > When asked why he does so, Neo responds "Because I choose to.", echoing
    > > > the theme in M2 that "Everything begins with choice." (the only way humans
    > > > achieve true freedom). But even though he delivers a stunning punch to
    > > > Smith
    > > > > which sends him through the ground, Neo is eventually defeated. Before
    > > > Smith takes him over he pauses, however, realizing that he has seen this
    > > > very moment in his visions, and he already knows what he is going to say.
    > > > "Everything that has a beginning has an end..." he mutters confusedly.
    > > > This
    > > > > causes Neo to realize that the Oracle still exists somewhere inside of
    > > > Smith, and that she is partially able to control his thoughts. Taking his
    > > > cue from the Oracle, Neo freely gives himself to Smith.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thus Neo is defeated, and Smith's original purpose, to defeat The
    > > > One (which he is never really expected to achieve, which leads to his bad
    > > > temperment) is accomplished. Smith therefore no longer has a purpose and
    > > > must be deleted. But since programs marked for deletion must return to the
    > > > > source, how is Smith to be deleted? Simple, the machines send the
    > > > command through Neo, into Smith, using a burst of energy. This causes all
    > > > of the Smith clones, and the original Smith, to be deleted, leaving the
    > > > original inhabitants of the bodies he has taken over (this is a basic
    > > > function of the
    > > > > agent programs, that they leave their hosts as they found them, with
    > > > death being the only exception).
    > > > >
    > > > > This then completes another revolution in the Matrix cycle, as The
    > > > One has reached the Source and has reinserted the prime program (Neo's
    > > > program, his knowledge and experiences). The Matrix is then reloaded back
    > > > to it's initial state, the late 20th century.
    > > > >
    > > > > The Oracle then meets with Sati, Seraph, and the Architect in a park
    > > > outside the city as the sun rises over it. The Architect tells her that
    > > > she was playing a "very risky game", and she asks him if he will honor the
    > > > promise of peace. He says that he will, since he is not human (meaning
    > > > > humans do not keep their promises, an insult). This means that those
    > > > people who unconsciously become aware of the Matrix and choose to leave
    > > > will be freed, and those living in Zion will not be killed. The war
    > > > between man and machine is over, or at least suspended.
    > > > >
    > > > > Looking upon the sunrise the Oracle asks Sati if that was her doing,
    > > > and the girl responds that she did it for Neo (made the sun rise).
    > > > Apparently Neo's experience with love, which was uploaded from him to the
    > > > Source, caused the machines to show pity on Sati and give her a purpose
    > > > instead of
    > > > > deleting her. She is now in control of the sun. Sati also asks the
    > > > Oracle if they will ever see Neo again, and the Oracle replies that they
    > > > might, indicating that the The One program will be used again in the
    > > > future, as it had been for the previous six iterations of the Matrix. M3
    > > > therefore ends
    > > > > where M1 began, except that now the humans who become aware of the
    > > > Matrix will be freed (a decent compromise if you ask me).
     
  17. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned


    I really like that analogy, too bad only Computer Science Majors with a background in Operating System Programming and/or Theory would understand it.
     
  18. Hakko-Ryu

    Hakko-Ryu New Member

    THANKS RATMAN!!!!! just got back from watching revolutions...heh your post really cleared up alot of things...Good stuff.
     
  19. ratman

    ratman Valued Member

    Its all part of the unplugging process. Hey its all about choice. lol
     
  20. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I thought it was pants, except the battle of the dock, that was ok.

    Col
     

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