Lost my way.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by franksv, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. franksv

    franksv Valued Member


    Started martial arts as a kid(boxing&wrestling)stopped for a while as a young adult.Started in tkd at 25(I am 34 now) and ended up learning some hsing-I and some tai chi the last year and a half.

    Now I am a martial mess.I have an two more oppurtunitys in the next few weeks,to begin either fresh(or add to my problem) with wing chun or bagua.The thing is I really do enjoy tkd,but something is just not right with me and that style anymore.Boxing is just not enough,I dig the art aspect of practice(forms).The hsing-I is not complete,I just have the 5 fists and thats as much as that teacher has to teach.The tai chi does not make me sweat enough and the guy that is showing it to me is not a teacher,just a student.At this point I am very torn,as martial arts has become part of my daily life.I wonder if I am just burned out,or if I have not found MY style yet.All of the material/styles I have,have benifits but,something is missing for me with every one of them.Has anyone else been down this road?Have you ever practiced a style long term and found that it was just not all it was cracked up to be?Maybe I just need a break from martial arts all together and just do the gym thing for a while.

    I know that all the switching back and forth is keeping me from making any progress in any of these styles.I might also add that I find with the exception of tkd/boxing that none of these styles really blend well for me.Any advise or if you have been through this yourself,I d love to hear how you overcame this.

  2. WingChun Lawyer

    WingChun Lawyer Modesty forbids more.

    TKD + Boxing = Muay Thai, so do that.

    OK, not really, but if you are interested in a martial art where you can use all of your striking experience, and blend it as you see fit, I suppose you could try Muay Thai. Most teachers allow the student to use whatever he wants during sparring, and they spar HARD, and often.

    So I suppose MT sparring practice should give you the opportunity to blend/pick and choose from your arsenal, to make personal striking game.

    Just my two cents.

    PS: stay away from Wing Chun. They usually don´t spar and they lack fundamental techniques, and even if you find a school that does spar, I doubt the teacher would let you use "that other stuff" during sparring practice, even if it works. Which is what you need to do, after all.
  3. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I take it from your screen name,that you have been down the wc road?The funny thing about wc is I have run into a number of folks that have done it and advise against the style(as I have tkd folks).I have also run into a number of folks that swear by the style.The hard thing for me is that I have developed a good relationship with the wc teacher.He took me and my hsing-I teacher in from training outside in the cold last winter and shared his space with us for the whole winter.I do not want to take him up on his invite unless I am going to be 100% percent commited.SO how about it wing chun/X wing chun people,tell me what you like and don't like about this style.

    The mt advise is one I have not thought of.I guess I could look into it but I am not sure if the two would blend well(tkd&mt).I would still have my tkd forms on top of all that mt has to offer.

    Mods,please don't put this thread in the kung fu section as this is just one aspect of the discussion.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  4. hux

    hux ya, whatever.

    I have no knowledge of Wing Chun other than what I read on here, but I can't imagine not trying it out for a little bit if offered the same situation that you are in. I would almost feel obligated to spend a week or two with the WC teacher and check out what he is teaching.

    Having said that - it doesn't sound like burnout to me, it sounds like a case of not having found YOUR art/system. Who knows, WC might be your thing and you'll be on here in 6 months telling us we still haven't seen the real WC.

    :D :D


    and yea, the MT suggestion seems a good one. Although if yer stuck on having katas, why not stick with boxing/TKD combo? Or do what I do, keep TKD and take up kickboxing/MMA. The TMA'er in me is happy, as well as the snarling man-eating beast. Bonus - the TKD'ers think I'm a trained killer now :)

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  5. WingChun Lawyer

    WingChun Lawyer Modesty forbids more.

    WC, in a nutshell, lacks sparring, hook punches, roundkicks, and decent footwork, and its learning curve is ridiculously hard. Yes, SOME schools don´t, but overall it is a rigid style which does not allow any improvisation - I did it for two years, I regret every moment.

    The point is, I believe you don´t need to actually PRACTICE a martial art, whether it is new to your or not. I believe you need to spar with as little restrictions as possible, to pick and choose what you like and what you don´t like in your arsenal.

    You have probably seen plenty of stuff in your martial arts experience. What you need now is some experimentation in a ring to find out how you like to do your stuff, YOU DO NOT NEED NEW STUFF TO ADD TO THE CONFUSION.

    AFTER you find our how you like to fight, then, based on that, you can look for a school/art which fits your needs. Not before.

    So, in your place, I would try to spar as hard as possible, with as little restrictions as possible, with as many people as possible. MT would do that for you in the striking area.

    Again, just my two cents.
  6. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I guess at this stage of the game I am looking for two things from my art,fitness and fighting.I don't want anymore sport,just practical fighting technique that is'nt flashy in regards to LONG term practice.I want an art I can still practice into old age or as long as I can still feed myself.I am only 34 and already hate doing all but the basic tkd kicks(front(to the groin :D ),side,round house).
  7. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I was posting while you where.You addressed my last post here.Thank you for your advise.As I am torn,you have added to one side of my delema.Part of me says to just stick with tkd(my style of tkd) and boxing.And also to get together with the boys for more sparring.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  8. WingChun Lawyer

    WingChun Lawyer Modesty forbids more.

    Hm, I don´t believe there are any arts out there with an age limit! Yes, some would say MT would kill you in the long term, whereas Tai Chi would be great, etc.

    I believe that´s bull. If you want to learn how to fight, you pick an art that lets you fight, and tone your sparring practice up or down, depending on your physical possibilities.

    I´ll say it again. You do not need a new art, you need jst fighting practice to develop your own personal style. If you can spar hard and often without formally starting a style, do it for some months. If you absolutely must join a new group, go fro Muay Thai or a MMA school.
  9. WingChun Lawyer

    WingChun Lawyer Modesty forbids more.

    I am glad to help. Anyway, you probably have more MA experience than me, but I have been through what you are experiencing - I was in doubt between WC and MT as a "base" striking art, I got beaten like a dog, repeatedly, in MT sparring, and I ended up making my mind.
  10. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    Ok, here is my 2 cents. First, MT or another striking style will probably be boring. Boxing is great, TKD good too and I am sure you have capable stand-up. If you are burnt out or bored why not change range and topics.

    Try Judo, JJ, or BJJ. Chances are there is a club or school near you. You must be tough to handle boxing so BJJ or Judo shouldn’t be too rough (in terms of contact) for you.

    If ground is not interesting to you or you don’t want to totally leave your comfort range try a weapons art in the FMA family. Or try Krav Maga to learn pistol, knife, rifle counters and hostage recovery techniques? I am sure TKD, Boxing Hsing-I and Tai-chi didn’t offer that kind of training.

    Good Luck!
  11. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I get together with a group of guys once or twice a month(when its warm outside) to spar.Funny thing is we have had a few newcommers that thought my tkd was mt because I drill so much fists,elbows,knees and roundhouse.
  12. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter


    I actually found myself in a similar predicament recently. I don't have a lot of previous training, only about 2 years of kung fu. The problem was that I had not trained dilligently in the style, and what I ended up with was a big mess. My techniques were off because I never slowed it down and worked on technique. My balance was off because I didn't get my stance training right in the beginning. My footwork was off, little power, etc. Basically, my personal style was a mess. The way I solved it was to start over. I started an MMA class and a different kung fu class, and just started over again as a white belt. I gave up everything I had learned and now I practice everything fresh, like a beginner and tried not to let my old stuff influence the new stuff I was learning.

    It has worked very well for me.

    On the other hand, you have a whole lot of experience, and starting fresh may be detrimental to your skill and/or a waste of time. I think what WC lawyer is advocating sounds good.

    I think WC can be an excellent style and is not as bad as WCL makes it out to be. However, WC and TKD are very similar in that they are very widespread, so many WC and TKD schools are crap. It's very hard to find a good teacher in either style.
  13. franksv

    franksv Valued Member


    Thats one for the other side of the argument,starting fresh.I just wonder,is how I practice my tkd is really still tkd?The way I spar does not even look like tkd anymore.As much as I love to cool down with the forms at the end of my routine,I get part way through them and just stop sometimes because they just don't feel right in a practical fighting sense to me.Thats the purpose of the thread,figuring out where my/our road in martial arts is going.I must say,I really did'nt think I would get this kind of response this quick.As much as I hate to hear that others have or are struggling with this,its nice to know I am not the only one.

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  14. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    This is not how wing chun should be taught and it's certainly not how I learn wing chun. I've no doubt that this was your experience (although I thought you'd said five years on bullshido). There are bad wing chun schools out there, and it sounds like you had the bad luck to attend one of them. You haven't been to all the wing chun schools in the world, you probably haven't even been to a wing chun school outside of your country, it's not sensible to base your view of every Wing Chun school in the world on your experience with one (maybe two) wing chun schools.

    I agree the learning curve is a slow one to start with, and its not the best style for someone who wants quick results. I agree that it doesn't have hook punches or roundkicks, because the whole strategy as you know is about linear attack and defence.

    It doesn't lack sparring, but that typically comes later in training, and it certainly doesn't lack footwork, again it's difficult to master but things worth working for usually are.

    The point was made earlier in the thread by franksv is that people tend to fall into two camps and either love wing chun or hate it with a passion, I think this reflects whether or not they went to a decent wing chun school.

    I'd recommend giving the school a try, it won't take long to find out how experienced the sifu is and whether his students can fight effectively. If it's not up to much, get out and do something else, if it is a good school, stay there and you will learn a very effective system.
  15. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    Wheres Homer?As I have had some conversation with that gent on this subject,I know he will be chimming in soon. :D
  16. Topher

    Topher allo!

    You must of went to a rubbish school then.

    I've kindly bolded the ridiculous statements, of which the worst, it "not allowing any improvisation" cant, be further from the truth. Were encouraged to improvise and utilise the system for ourselves as soon as were capable to do so – usually within months of training. Any good school wold encourage this.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  17. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I have to disagree here. I've found the learning curve reflects the system - quick, simple and direct. A lot of what i learnt i could have used in the first few weeks/months such as thrusting guard, pak, lap, and centre line punches.

    I second this. If you never try it you never know. Try Wing Chun, try Muay Thai and anything else your interested, then you can make a more accurate choice according to your aims based on your time with these systems.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2006
  18. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    Thanks Homer,But I already knew what you where going say. :D
  19. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    I see what your saying, and you could realistically teach a bright student all the techniques in a couple of days, probably the first form as well. But it's only now in my training that I find myself starting to apply those techniques without having to think about them, and thats going to be a lot more difficult under pressure. I still make lots of mistakes in getting the correct structure, but at least I'm aware of most of them now.

    Its usually a few months into training before most schools start teaching people how to move.

    Although they may use Wing Chun strikes and trapping etc in a real fight, I doubt if the fighting style that they would probably adopt in the real world would really qualify as being Wing Chun. Compared with some arts, you are spending a long time building a foundation in wing chun. However, on the whole its much quicker to learn than most Chinese Martial Arts.

    If somebody wanted to prepare for a fight next week, I don't think they would be wise to do wing chun training. If they were more concerned with how they were going to be able to defend themselve in 3 years time, then I'd reccomend Wing Chun.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2006
  20. Topher

    Topher allo!


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