If possible could an abridged version of any PM's be posted on this thread for those of us who are genuinely interested in the history of the style, but who don't have an axe to grind
LOL, we certainly have Colin! Lets break this down into parts for discussion if thats OK with you. Let me deal with an arbitary(ish) scenario for invention of forms. I personally know of several systems with complicated forms, popular in the seventies/eighties and still today in some parts, that had all of the forms contained within them, 'made up'. By, 'made up', I mean consisting of parts and bits of traditional forms, techniques from traditional styles, alternative ways of using some of those techniques, techniques and movements made from observing other styles forms or techniques, it goes on and on but you get the picture, basically a mixture of martial 'stuff' welded together. How do we then judge these forms? Well, if we know not of the actual history of their development, we don't judge at all. If we are from another style, we compare not judge, but if we know how they have actually originated then we tend to judge harshly. Is it right to do so? Well, thats up to the individual, but it should be borne in mind that this is how almost all the forms of what we see as traditional arts have come to be. Choy Li Fut is a perfect example of this for instance. Comments?
I suppose it all really comes down to whether you personally think Master Yau has based his whole life in the UK on a lie. He says he was taught the forms by his GrandFather, and that the style is called Lau Gar Kuin. It comes down to whether you believe that or not. I would just like to know, as many others would too, where you get your information from. Mine comes direct from Master Yau. So either he has been lying to me for 18 years, and to many many others for over 30 years, or your information is incorrect. On a different tangent slightly....Do you remember Steve Richards of Southern Tong Long? He stated once that when his late Mantis master passed away, the Hakka people had a sort of "wake" with several Hakka Masters in attendance. Master Yau was there and was invited to perform his Kung Fu. In atttendace also was Sifu Steve Richards, Master Paul Whitrod (I believe) and Tony Leung of steel wire mantis fame. Do you really think this would have been so if he was a lier? Feel free to speak openly here. I know you have no axe to grind with me or with Lau Gar. cheers Colin.................
"I'm always interested in the truth. HeII......aren't we all hopefully!" For someone who wouldn't know the truth if it smacked him on the face - I find it staggering and monstrously arrogant to make such a proclamation so publicly, Colin. This comes from an instructor who revels in predatory behaviour towards his female students and thereby undermining his 'professional' credibility. Was it not you who told me Master Yau regretted bringing the system to the West in the first place? That the 'white devils' would seek to corrupt it for their .........own personal gain and/or individual purpose?? I see you as the perfect example of everything that embodies the vulgarity that the Oriental people would despise. So if he lied to you, I would say it takes one to know one, does it not?
Sorry it seem you have got this the wrong way I am sure that TC was not discrediting Master yau in any form what so ever So, did he go out with you and dumped you then beacuse this seems to be a very bitter statement see the above Sorry you should really read the rest of the post
My dear Oldman I would check the facts before making any kind of rash judgement as to who did what to whom. Surely, the role of teacher/instructor is one held in trust and guidance of his/her students, not solely for the purpose of sleazing onto every female student who walks in the door? Bitter? - no. I would rather this not happen to any others. The very people who probably need self-defence/martial arts the most (ie. females) in this violent society, are subjected to cheap advances and leering from their teacher. I'll make mention that I got a wonderful term of endearment of "Do you want a smack in the mouth?" - bitter, no. Afraid of a potentially violent individual - yes. I expect this type of behaviour contradicts the traditional Oriental ideology of a martial arts family where there is respect, manners, and human decency between each other. So, do you actually condone a teacher behaving this way towards female students? You think this is acceptable?
When you can spell, punctuate and thread together cohesive sentences with an iota of intelligence, then I'll take you seriously. Enjoy stroking your ego. On with the debate, then.
OK, well for the record, I actually do believe that what he says is true, that he learnt forms from his Grandfather, and that it is/was called Lau Gar Kuen. However, I also believe that the majority of the syllabus (which being a teacher you are aware is nowehere near just those forms) was made from those sets and many other style's sets and techniques here in the UK. I also believe that the sets in UK Lau Gar are not exactly the same as those taught to him by his Grandfather, but again were changed here in the UK as more appropriate for mass consumption. My source for this information, is two former members of the BKFC, who sat on a panel (with Yau Sifu) checking the credentials of an applying English born but Chinese mainland trained gentleman, who proceeded to show all the original Lau family sets and Hung family sets, and give a detailed verbal history of both. This 'incident' - if you will - gave at the very least. momentum to the formation of the BKFA away from the BKFC. There have as you well know, been many many former Lau students and others with agendas for this reason or that who have said similar for some time, whether in possession of this knowledge or not. Again, I don't care one way or the other, each to their own, and if its good, let it be good. I do care about truth, and have gone the hard way around debunking several martial 'ways' in my life (unfortunately). The funny thing really is that Lau Gar in the UK is almost more traditional than most other Chinese styles particularly as most others did not get round to being taught to round eyes for years after. On the tangent, I did used to know Steve Richards, but lost touch with him some years back. I remember him talking about that very gathering. Yau Sifu, is not disrespected at all in the Chinese martial community (by which I mean Chinese people). The only thing I will say is that Chinese Sifu from traditional arts do not say much if anything at all about UK Lau Gar, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but added to the information above means a little of something to me, at least. There is no axe, never mind grinding one. Hey, remember Axe Gar ?! Now that was funny.
I've found a lau gar class near me, (see my thread about classes in london). Is this style any good? The guy teaching near me is called Colin Mackenzie. Does anyone know of him? because his training looks really traditional from his site. I've looked at several sites and there seems to be 2 sides to lau gar. One competition orientated & one very traditional kung fu. Is this the Colin thats been banned from MAP? I'm gonna call him and hopefully go along to his class after easter.
Ive been thinking of getting back into Lau Gar for a while now, I studied in Derby under Rajko Dokic who is a very good instructor, I got up to orange sash but thinking I may need to re-cap on a lot of things, does anyone know where i can find the Syllabus list, I know there was a pictured syllabus that went around at some point, I actually had this but lost it.
LOL, Colin Mackenzie, is on this very forum as Tseek Choi, I would highly recommed his classes to you, he's very knowledgeable about traditional Lau Gar. Give his classes a try, you won't be dissapointed. Ian
Sorry PantherFist But Tseek Choi is banned :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: is a bit of a shame as, he is the man when it comes to lau gar
Thanks guys, i called Colin today and he's invited me to go along to his class on easter monday in the park for free, apparently no one pays if they train in the park. Cool!! I am also going to look at the chow gar, but he seems to teach lots of different styles and it looks quite expensive too. I suppose it depends on whether the teacher is teaching as a living or because they want to pass on knowledge. Colin did however say some very complementary things about Chow Gar and Master Paul Whitrod, which is good to hear. Dan
I believe he was banned because he was already skating on thin ice at the time he decided to call a friend of mine a "hick piece of crap" or something similar along those lines.. I can never tell what the hell it is exactly English people type on here at times anyways
Dude it was regretful and did not mean any thing by it He said he just read the mail the wrong way. Its the english dry sence of humour
actually the gentlmen in question was a Hung gar practioner doing the lau gar form which has nothing to do with lau gar Kung Fu
