Tony Leung of Steel Wire Mantis fame once wrote an article in Combat magazine many years ago about Mainland Chinese Lau Gar. He listed all the forms, which were all different from the UK version. One particular hand form was practised ontop of a table to develop balance and to show that not much room was need to fight. And since Lau Gar was well known for its staff techniques, the Mainland version had many staff forms. I had heard, that at one time many years ago, there was a Mainland Chinese Lau Gar club in Belgium. Don't know if its still there. But you are bound to be able to find the Mainland version in Hong Kong and Southern China. Tony Leung who was at that time writing a book on the 'Dawn and Development of Chinese Martial Arts' said it was still quite popular in certain provinces.
But is it different or is it some one who got a black sash went off on his/her own made t it up then called it lau gar?? It happens I have come across a few
From what I can gather, the mainland version, is totally different from the UK version. Tony Leung mentioned there were still old masters with schools that had long lineages still teaching in villages in Southern China.
something to remember One thing I would like to point out, is that the post that said Master Yau formed the current UK Lau Gar sylabus is correct. In mainland China many schools still do not grade by belts. Our western desire to mark our achievments is what lead to adding a belt system to Lau Gar. I studdied Lau Gar in the Uk for many years and have since moved to the US. At a recent tournament I witnessed a 40 year old chinese man do a form that looked remarkably like bac Pye jun. It had small differances but It was noticable as being very similar. He learned it from his sifu in China, and had never been graded by belt. Just remeber that although their is now a formal sylabus...you wont see that exact sylabus outside the UK, but you wil see the same origin of kung fu....
Thanks for that i am not doubting anything in lau gar uk or its origin far from it. :Angel: I was just generally intrested if there were any other websites on lau gar outside the uk as you find hung gar chow gar etc
At the time that Tony Leung was writing his articles for combat, he was also trying to discredit many Kung Fu teachers in the UK. As many of you will know Lau Gar was one of those systems that he originally aimed at, unfortunately he was unable to discredit Master Yau, as Master Yau was and still is highly respected for his Kung F skills within the UK chinese community, and in particular the Hakka community. Now as Tony Leung was also well known within the Hakka community due to his training in Chow Gar Mantis, there was plenty of opportunity to find out any "dirt" on Lau Gar, but there was nothing to find out. Try speaking to anyone from one of the hakka systems, in particular one of the Chinese sifu, and they will tell you all you need to know about the authenticity of the Lau Gar system. As for the mainland system being in belgium, I have never heard of this. There was a one time a guy in Holland claiming to teach "Northern Lau Gar Kuen". This was complete rubbish! HE was making it up from bits of UK Lau Gar and some ChoiLeiFut forms he knew. There is probably someone still teaching or practicing in Gongsai as Master Yau's GrandFather did teach openly there for some years, and also I believe in Kowloon. Too much time is spent on worrying about the history behind the system and not enough time spent on actually practicing and understanding the techniques. There are many similarities between nearly every kung fu style. A good example of this is when I was learning the Ji-Xing (chicken form) of Hebei Xing Yi Quan. My Sifu was surprised and pleased to see that the techniques were very similar to the "Chor Ma Ngarc Jurn" technique in Lau Gar Keun. Sandmanjp, I may well know you! I trained With Sifu Neville Wray from 89-99 and Sifu Stan Brown from about 91 until the split. I fought in many of the early National semicontact superleagues, (mainly as Neville ran them and he made me fight!) lol!! I remember Curtis well, and still train with Keith Baptiste, Cliff, Robin & Winston. (All Sifu Stans old students.) Good luck with the teaching in the US. cheers Colin..............
Thanks Oldman! Jurt feel that people forget things that they don't like to hear. I mentioned Bey Logan before. He trained in Lau Gar for several Years with Master Yau before switching to Hung Gar and moving to Hong Kong. If it had not ben for Master Yau and Lau Gar, he would probably be flipping burger in mcdonalds! people have a tendency in modern times to forget the source of their knowledge, instead they build themselves up at the expense of their teachers. I with I could remember the quote about the river??? Something about the size of the river, but never forgetting where it comes from. Help me out here will you, the old brains melting! C..........
Yeah I remember my instructor mention "bey logan" and what a T*at he was back in the day. I guess he was way back in the bus then (or should I say burger van lol) yeah it is all about respect sorry dude cant help you out on the river thang since I am probably older than you me brain is ready for the back of the bus. But it is nice to see a factual point of view
Dude I am always nice to lau gar as lau gar has always been nice to me for the 12 years I trained in the style :Angel: Its a pity there is not a club nearer to where I live now :cry:
Pedantic I may be, but just the one thing, in '73 it was the British Kung Fu Council (which also consisted of other teachers and styles) not Association, the BKFA came later and was purely Lau Gar (still is as far as I know?). The BKFC became what is now the BCCMA. I don't think, as I have said before, that anyone ever really doubted Yau Sifu's evident skills, and I don't recall Bey Logan's article stating that he didn't have skills and boxing knowledge. As you have rightly pointed out, the system as it stands was created here, and all the - what might be called 'naysayers' - alluded to was the mysticism about the origin of the 'whole'. BTW Neville Wray broke my nose once in 'semi'! Very fast backfist that fella had. Respect is a two way thing fellas, no need to have a go a Mr. Logan, he did, like him/it or not, do a lot for the martial arts 'scene' in the UK.
When you say system surley that would be syllabus, As the system is lau gar. not the one for splitting hairs. Who said there was a witch hunt for Mr Logan
When drinking the water, think of the source. In (not very good) Cantonese pinyin: "yum sui yiw see yuen"
With all due respect.......... The style of Lau Gar was NOT created in the UK. The Forms were NOT invented in the UK. The syllabus was standardised/formulated whatever words you want to use, but you insist on saying the system. That is incorrect as the forms came to the UK With Master Yau, and as the forms are the core & essence of the "system" then it was not created here! Regarding the BKFC & the BKFA; The BKFC was created by as you say, several Chinese teachers in about '73. Master Yau, Sifu Chee Soo from Feng Shou, Master Yap Loong from Shaolin Fists (still runs shaolin Way in London), and probably others. Since then the BKFC evolved/devolved into the bccma, where strangely enough there are no longer any Chinese Teachers on the board! By the info I have.....the BKFA was also setup in 1973. I'm in Brum tomorrow, so i'll check that. Thanks CFT. I know the quote "When drinking water, one must ponder it's source". from Cui Heqing of Wuqing. Us Xingyi bods get to learn all the philosophy! I also thought there was something similar but mentioning a river, not just the source, but the flow and path it follows, still the point is there! Oh...hi Keith! regards Colin..........
Well, with the same respect due back to you.....I can only agree that we are disagreeing about semantics. Sorry, but I stand by what I posted. I honestly believe that you are, whether you wish to admit it or not - and quite rightly so given your training and teaching history by the way, 'defending'. I am not however, 'attacking', whatever you may think. You may well be right about the same year of forming, as I am sure it was later the same year Yau Sifu left the BKFC to form the BKFA.
Mark, Hey........we've been round the block a couple of times with this, if I remember correctly. I'm always interested in the truth. HeII......aren't we all hopefully! But I still don't see how you can think that the system was "made up" in the UK. Details as to the source of your information would be very interesting. Obviously this being a very public forum, you might prefer to PM or call me. Master Yau was taught forms such as "Bak Pye Jurn", "Lau Gar Luk Hop Kuin", "Fei loong Jee" etc by his GrandFather. To say that these were "invented" in the UK seems very unlikely as they are quite complex & would have taken some quite amazing imagination to be created out of thin air. Anyway.........I think we should take this to PM before someone like "fizz-lau" gets on here and starts shouting and yelling!
