yesterday I tried Loy Tan Sao Da after zoning which should have worked well against my partner's lead hook. to bad it was a swing and i got tagged instead! next time I'll just cover!
Arghhh! ARGHHHHHH!!!! ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHR!!! ARGHHHHGARRGE!!!! AGRAHHHH!!! ARGhhhh!!! HAHAHRR!!! A!A!ARGHHOOOOOOOGAH!!!!!! ... My God, there truly is no hope for Wing Chun is there? If you are aiming to grab someone's arm, you can not possibly be thinking of hitting your opponent. Holy Yip Man! You cats should be doing judo or something if you want to grab people's arms. Trapping has nothing to do with grabbing arms and nothing to do with blocking either, to be intentionally blocking is the philosophical opposite of what WC is trying to do. Wing Chun is about... wait for it... wait for it... INTERCEPTION!! *gasp* shock-horror! The most common way your opponent will find himself trapped is from a single punch from you (that's right most traps happen in a single motion!). All that trapping means is that your opponent finds himself in a position where your attack (in this case my just right forearm) is obstructing his arms from mounting any further significant attack. He's "trapped" by my arms and most importantly your position. Another way of looking at traps is that because of the WCer's footwork, positioning, timing, reflexes, the opponent will find himself "trapped" in the clinching range once it has been closed he can't move fast and more importantly react faster to leave the clinching range. Can this happen against a Boxer? Well is a Boxer a human being? Does he have two arms and two legs? Is he under the same laws of physics that you are under? Well then... you know the answer. Traps will inevitably happen when you close the distance into the clinching range, just think of hitting opponent. If his arms don't get in the way you score a hit, if his arms do get in the way you score a hit and control his balance and can effortlessly predict his next move and maybe even have the option of a take down. As with all threads on MAP the answer is always "Do Judo." WSL Wing Chun - "Just hit the ****er!"
GSR, i'm glad you have the "think hit" mentality. Most people just chase hands and forget about main objective, to hit. All the boxers i fight take wingchun. It makes it fun to fight them because they're very aware of their centerline. It makes intercepting difficult.
You're spot-on. I've read a lot of posts, some on JKD sites, about using trapping to "open a line of attack", ...like you're going to try to trap down a boxer's guard and then hit him!?! Hell, why not just stick out your chin and scream, "hit me!". In WT/WC as I've seen it, your objective is to HIT! Often the action of hitting creates a momentary trap that allows you to hit! hit! hit! and maybe hit again. Then, maybe you can trap and pin your opponent's arms to finish the job. To see how it works, reference some clips of Emin, or any other good fighter regardless of lineage.
When you can snatch the pebble... ... ahhh Grasshopper. The answer to your question may be found here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1386932/?licb=0.0939769294291588 Watch this wondrous film and learn how to do it from my Grand Uncle's master. :hat:
Just saw this thread and wanted to say something I dont understand why people argue about which amrtial art is better, especially when it comes to wing chun vs boxing or other martial arts, the thing is that in reality, most martial arts are really just the same, only the principles are different, but usually if you look more closely, it's still just the same. the thing is that wing chun has A LOT in common with boxing, I dont know from what lineages are other Wing Chun practitioners here, but I'm from IWCO, and we also have full contact sparring, and trust me, when you're fighting it wont look like 'real' wing chun at all, fighting is fighting. it's not about doing flashy moves, you just learn the principles and then learn to apply them, if you stick to using what you know it will work. I dont understand why almost every martial artist who does kung-fu says 'you cant use kung-fu in sparring/in ring, it was made only for real fights'.. getting back to what I wanted to say, I dont get it why are you arguing about this, wing chun and boxing are practically the same. Every martial art works if you learn to use it properly btw you can watch the video from Ip Man Cup 2012 open world competition, which was held in china and see for yourself that WC can be used in a ring, it wont be as flashy as in the movies, but it's still wing chun [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEH3kzYCEDs"]Ip Man Cup 2012 - Wing Chun open competition. Video # 1 - YouTube[/ame]
Holy Zombie Apocalypse Batman!! Jugo, not hating but when I looked at the ring fights (e.g. ~ 8:15) I saw high side kicks, round house kicks, back fists and alot of running about... whoa that referee seems to want to get into the middle of everything :' P is there some rule against clinching in these fights?? Not complaining about the fight but is this what you are using as an example of wing chun in the ring? Doesn't really seem to fit with the spirit/philosophy of the style. Just saying :' D LFD
Keep in mind most of the people that we're in these fights only do WC for 2 years. and as I said real kung-fu isn't pretty, fighting is fighting btw its not strictly Wing Chun, it's an open competition, most fights are Wing Chun fighters against other style fighters. maybe it looks funny and 'not wing chun' until you actualy try it for yourself about the rules against clinching, I'm not sure, but I think the referee breaks them when there is too much contact
Thanks, just odd that there would be a concern about too much contact in a ring fight :' P Also odd that the people competing are relative beginners. Didn't they have any sort of senior or advanced divisions?? Guess at least they are trying their stuff out. Any idea what percentage of the WC versus other systems fights that the WC people actually won? LFD
I dont know about the rules so I cant say much Nope, the fights weren't chosen by to how many years you practice, there were some that are practicing over 5 years I think. The thing is, once you learn the basics, you go sparring and learn to actually fight, because it is neccesary. At the end of the video I think it shows how many medals have been won. I'd say most of the fights. As I remember the points were counted only if you execute a clean WC technique, not only for a punching or kicking. and there are 4 judges
If you think those fights are fun you need to see the chi sau clips from that tournament, turns into bare knuckle wild punches very quickly Question for you Jugo and its sincere I promise: if as you say wing chun in a fight looks nothing like wing chun in practise, is the guard is different from that seen in the forms, the hands don’t follow the same straight path as in the forms, sticky hands goes out of the window as seen in those clips…then honestly what do the forms and chi sau teach that is actually helpful to fighting? Most people with 2 years of training should be able to use their system in the ring to some extent, it might not be pretty but it should be recognisable
It's not that different watching a boxer.. When I was a kid I'd watch the boxers before a fight shadowboxing. It was all wow, look at that! fast crisp continuous - a blur of power and beauty. In the fight, I'd be sitting there thinking "hang on, how comes they're ring fighting looks so different to their shadowboxing??" Seems like pretty much the same complaint as yours. I think I must have been about 9 years old.
Would have thought as you grew up you would have realised how silly your thinking was :hat: a boxer throws the same jab cross upper cut and hook punch in shadow boxing as he does on the punch bag and in sparring and fighting, will it look as smooth nope because adreline and fear of getting hit changes the game, yet his stance, footwork and punches as well as defences are exactly the same, the same cant be said for what you see in those clips and what you see in wing chuns forms, its partner training and chi sau practise its not like the boxers suddenly start chain punching, bong saoing left right and centre and walking round with their hands held at their waist and throwing reverse punches, they look exactly like they do in training just not as polished :hat:
Wing Chun training wasn't developed for the ring where as boxing developed exactly for delivering the most effective strikes under that ruleset and environment. You really need to take that into account too. They are very different training systems. What I described also plays a part. Put the two together and I think you have a fair answer to the issue you raised. Any trad system needs to be adapted for sport fighting and it won't look much like the training forms. On the other hand, someone well trained in their system can tell you where it is and where it shows up. I could run you through where the tai chi is in my san shou.*edit: as well as what specific tcc training is supposed to be imparting. But I can't really do it for WC. But I'm sure there's those that could.
well I didn't mean it looks NOTHING AT ALL like real wing chun while in practice, but I mean, when you train your technique you are used to that your partner will let you do everything then it all looks really good, but when you are fighting/sparring then your opponent wants to hit you just as much as you want to hit him, then it's not that easy to do a clean technique, that's why it doesn't look as good as some would want it to be, but you just have to train, then it starts to look like wing chun, it's all practice Now about your question on chi sao. I've already covered half the question above, the thing is, the punches are straight, but remember, when you're being attacked all the time it's not that easy to do clean technique. Secondly, actually every technique in WC, if you look at it, is just punching (if we're talking only about the hands right now), all the 'blocking' techniques are punches too, because all the techniques are directed to the center of the opponent. it's kind of hard to explain this over text, but I hope you get it btw with chi sao competitions, the time is only counted when you are in contact, if you lose contact with your opponent the time is being stopped and then you have to put your hands back together into chi sao. and there are two rounds of 2:30 minutes. You get reaaaalllly tired. trust me. that's why most of the guys just give up after the first round or in the beginning of the second one
