Perhaps this is why someone (most likely a master) decided to invent the KSGA. Whether the *fallout* from WKSA will choose to go with this new upstart is another question entirely. Nope, I disagree. I think Obamamama hit the nail squarely on the head in post #699. I'm not saying the economy is on the upswing, but the franchise has been in the works for some time, prior to people waking up and realizing how bad the economic situation had gotten. I'm sorry, I just don't give them (WKSA) that much credit as visionaries (plus I know that getting them to heed advice and trademark the name years ago was like pulling teeth - they eventually *came around* but not in time to secure "kuk sool" without the "won"). No doubt, time will tell if the franchise spells doom for the WKSA as we know it. Who knows, intelligent folks get duped all the time. If not, P.T. Barnum wouldn't be (mis)quoted so often, now would he? I don't wish anything bad to happen to the Suh Family, but I hope most school owners realize how wrong it would be to sign the franchise document as it currently stands.
thanks I don't really think enough people realize how devastating this franchise will be for IHS/WKSA. I am reasonably sure that there is a lot of "investigating" going on right now ( which is what i think prompted them to pursue franchising in the first place). This franchise thing has been very silent lately and the WKSA is acting as if it is " business as usual" which is a good indicator that there is a strong "undercurrent" of activity. TX BB testing in May was 1/2 the size of normal and was uneventful at best, many schools that have always had seminars , are opting out, some that are listed are not actually going to occur... and the "seminar schedule " is filled in with other stuff to make it seem full. look at the seminars that are a combining of many schools into one location, not that odd of a practice for WKSA , but it is interesting that they list all of the schools around that area to make the "tour" seem full. people are wary....as they should be. what is weird is that there is so much assumption that schools "need" an association. thats the part that I don't get. I guess the kool aid has a lasting effect even after you have stopped drinking. call it withdrawal. why do all of you school owners NEED an association. why can't you teach, train, and run your school w/o one? time to grow up guys......get out of the bubble and join the WRWA (world real world association) alex or sung jin?????? give me a break sung jin seems like he just wants to train hyung all day and couldn't care less about this crap ....but is irreversibly connected to whatever disaster happens, alex ...?????? who cares what he thinks I cant believe anyone listens to him to begin with....... i have never heard some one talk so much , but say nothing but gobbeldygoop. i kind feel sorry for him:cry: not! some of you people make it sound as if they are the only hope for learning pleeze....im not even sure they are even a good second or third choice given their history.....where are the masses of people that they have trained that are clamoring for more. where are the world class champions, mma, open tourney, law enforcement/military professionals etc. Are there any that seek them out for this "special/exclusive/hidden" skills....while they may do well in wksa tourneys, what about outside of the wksa world? where is the greatness that we never stop hearing about? where does their credibility come from w/o IHS..... sfhq was NEVER a thriving dojang and tomball/magnolia have no verified success either. so they aren't even good at the business of ma. at least ATA schools make some money! i guess they need you school owners out there to do it ($$$$) for them as you serve under their banner...... wow what a house of cards.......... well fortunately the art will endure ( as traditional arts tend to do) too bad the self proclaimed "stewards" of KS are also it's "bane".
IDK it worked out pretty good for Mc'y D's, BK, and Subway? Do you Have proof or is this some propaganda from hearsay that is spreading from someone who left WKSA? I'm not wary.:dunno: Let me see...NASCAR, NFL, NBA, PGA, Olympics, WCW, NRA, AAA..... You should take that up with them. Well there I should have ****ed off just about every KSW mapper as it seems that everyone hates WKSA. You know what they say "Lead Follow or get the "F" out of the way!
Yeah, they hate them so much that they keep coming on here to talk about it but never do anything about it! ROFL
Uh... whaddya mean, dude? I'm neither PO'd at you nor do I hate WKSA. You see, the way I look at it, everyone is entitled to their OWN opinion. Unfortunately, if one expresses it somewhere like here, in a PUBLIC forum, and it just so happens to cast HQ in a not-so-pleasing light, that's when the rumors & innuendo start circulating (especially if your identity is well established). I'm not malcontent; far from it. But I am an opinionated SOB. I'd agree with this statement wholeheartedly IF it weren't for the KSGA. It seems more than a coincidence that the spawning of this organization began shortly after the decision to franchise KSW.
why is it that you keep brining up the ksga at almost every opertunity? do you have some sort of stake in the org?
I'm happy to hear that. No really? I never would have guessed. :evil: If you think that starting KSGA is going to fix the problems (assuming there is a problem) in WKSA, or even create somthing to replace WKSA then you are delerious.
First, I don't see how an organization that is NOT a part of WKSA could have any sort of influence, and therefore fix any perceived problems within the WKSA. Second, I don's see how a small upstart with less than a dozen members could possibly overshadow a 50-year old organization with hundreds of affiliated schools. So forgive me if I think that it's you who might be delirious or delusional. Renegade2 made a statement that people were all talk & no action. I simply offered a reply and I've already apologized for stating the obvious; that the creation of an upstart organization was most likely due to unfavorable actions by a different, older, well-established organization. However, I might point out that small as it might be, the ACTION of forming this upstart organization certainly has people TALKING, yes?
Evidentally we agree on this matter. I somewhat agree here as well. When WKSA changed it's business structure people pannicked mostly because they don't like change and also the wording in the document is a bit onesided, by the way it reads like all other francise documents, lawyers have these fill in the blank documents to help guide them through the proccess. When certain people got wind of it they decided to try and take advantage of the fallout. Unfortunatly for them the francise hasn't had the impact; as of yet, to send the bulk of school owners running for salvation. As I see it the schools that left already had issues with WKSA and this was just the "straw that broke the camels back". Yes!
Just playing devils advocate:evil: .........But maybe it is also a convenient stick for a school owner to hit the WKSA with when having to explain to their students, (who maybe enjoy everything about KSW training and tournaments etc.) just WHY they are leaving the organisation and (if the student does not want to leave) leaving them in the lurch when it comes to testing etc. With the best will in the world, most under black belts wont' want to get involved in politics. They just want to carry on with what the school owner offered them when they joined, and that includes being part of the WKSA.
The students can "carry on" with WKSA, as long as they leave their instructor. promis to not train in any other martial art, keep sending HQ test fees for services not rendered, purchase only from HQ or their authorised dealers for any and all martial arts equiptment or uniforms, attend mandatory tournaments and seminars, relearn techniques and forms every few years...etc. etc..... OOPS now who sounds bitter?
HOW? If there is no school close enough to train at? And what about the testing fees that the student may have paid? Is the "old" instructor going to reimburse them because of his or her decision to leave the organisation which they recruited the student into? We know that HQ certainly won't! Of course, it's fair enough for an instructor to leave the WKSA if that is what they want to do. Hopefully we all live in a free country. However, there is a lot of BS spouted on here about loyalty to one's instructor. Loyalty should work both ways. IMHO if an instructor decides to leave the WKSA and if there is no other school reasonably close enough for the students to continue their study, then maybe that instructor should EITHER find a replacement school owner OR be prepared to refund any BB testing fees which their student has paid. Otherwise, the students have no choice but to follow the instructor whether they want to leave the WKSA or not unless they stop training in Kuk Sool AND they will be seriously out of pocket. That is hardly freedom.
FREEDOM? My understanding is that if someone has paid their BB test fee and is near completion, they should be issued the certification. If just starting out, however, disbelief in the "no refund" rule plus enough EFFORT might get the fee reimbursed. But issuing a £5 ($10) belt & certificate still seems more likely for this group (despite not taking any tests/gradings) as it's a much cheaper way for WKSA to resolve any issues surrounding this quandary.
The instructor will probably teach the same MA that the student wanted to learn it is HQ that says they will not honor their continued trainoing under an " unauthorised " instructor.... they should supply an authorised instructor to these students if they won't allow continued training under the old instructor. The test fees are collected by HQ for HQ any reimbursment are their responsability not the school owner, consider it ........why should anybody refund mony they were not paid. A Prudent school owner should honor that payment twords continued testin under whatever affiliation they continue with IMO.
I wouldn't want a belt I hadn't earned. I'd think anyone working their way to DBN wouldn't want a belt they hadn't earned. I suppose some juniors or their parents might think they got their money's worth, but there is more worth to be gotten then just their money. It is unfortunate that students are the innocent victims in all this politics.
As are the school owners it seems! IN fact those of us who are "fortunate" enough NOT to have the undoubted hassle of running a school are often in a better position. Particularly the higher ranks as we tend to be located nearseveral higher ranked school owners anyway. If one school were to close then we would have another close by to train at. It is the under black belts and 1st dahns I particularly feel sorry for in all this, (as they have far more to learn before reaching their dahn grade than 3rd dahns and above) particularly if they are located in a school which too great a distance away from any others for practical training if their instructor leaves the Won. As for the WKSA giving them a certificate anyway, well that might keep a few happy, but really, a refund of part or all of the fee, depending upon how many tests had been carried out would be a fairer way. Does anyone out there know of ANYONE who has EVER got a refund of Dahn Testing fees for ANY reason???? I have been around a while and I cannot recall it happenning despite several very good reasons why it might have been allowed. Surely, it is illegal to keep the money when you are not in a position to provide the service you have been paid for? Or would a student still be allowed to test, even if he or she trained with a "non-Won" instructor? Has anyone ever heard of this situation being resolved. Just thinking that it might be useful for anyone else who finds themselves in this situation to have a past example to base an argument on.........
I know of only one such case' a school wase sued for "non fulfilment of a contract" even though the contract for 1st Dan testing is with HQ the schoolowner was told to deal with it. " the problem is with your student, you deal with it ".........the suit , or threat of it went all the way to HQ by the student , and HQ ( GM Suh ) told the school owner to make th problem go away. I thought at the time of the testing fee we were assinged a new # and became HQ students?? Whatever... this squeekey wheel did get greased but not by who they paid the money to.
