KSW critics?

On one hand, you think you know what full contact KSW looks like by saying KSW's wrestling component is very different from ssireum.....then in the next paragraph, you don't know what it looks like full contact.

Which is it?

And fyi, just because you have it in your mind what folkstyle wrestling looks like to you and you adamantly try to say otherwise, Ssireum is Korean folkstyle wrestling. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssireum)

 

There you go

 

*sigh* no it's a Korean folk wrestling style. Folkstyle wrestling is the name of a specific style of wrestling practised almost exclusively in North America.

 

For the former, I don't need to see full contact KSW, I just need to know what Ssireum looks like, what KSW looks like and the history of KSW.
For the second part, if KSW people aren't doing full contact training, then how does anyone know what full contact KSW looks like? However, logically if full contact KSW looks like Muay Thai and folkstyle, why doesn't KSW in general? Especially when TKD and Karate, much more closely related styles to KSW look like TKD and Karate in a full contact environment?

 

STOP BEING DISHONEST

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

 

I see. I answered your question on the very next post. I guess you didn't bother to read it? Clearly you like to create your own category of high intensity versus low intensity, sport versus non-sport. What you do consider regular BJJ competitor to be?

I see. So you were being purposefully deceptive. Instead of saying collegiate wrestling or scholastic wrestling to describe what you meant....when I mentioned Ssireum, you started to talk about folkstyle wrestling versus folk wrestling style.

If you know so much and don't need to see the full contact vids...what is the point here?

And no, you don't know what KSW looks like if TKD/Karate versus MT/folkstyle are the choices you come up with. A better guess would be Gongkwon Yusul because it shares the same history (if you choose to believe that history is another matter) via the KS-Hwarangdo connection.

Some vids here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/go3398/videos?shelf_index=2&view=0&sort=dd

 

Yes, I called it by it's proper name rather than one of the other less accurate/all encompassing ones that it goes by. What a lying scumbag I am
I should point out that I said folkstyle BEFORE you said Ssireum, so who's being disingenuous?

No, you said with no reference to my post that even though you did BJJ you saw no need to bash TMA This tells me nothing about your training, especially as you were in an "MMA doesn't represent reality" phase then and tells me nothing about your KSW and/or self defence training.

Keep up, those are the styles we've looked at in the videos. You've been pointing to videos of people doing what looks like Muay Thai and folkstyle and saying it's full contact KSW, we've been saying it's probably not.

Right, so Karate/TKD with Judo and Aikido/Aikijujitsu then? Nothing like Muay Thai and folkstyle.

 

You are and you don't even know it. No need to call yourself names, however. I wonder if we took a poll, what more people here have heard of "collegiate wrestling" or "folkstyle wrestling."

No, you want answers in pre-packaged containers that only fit your idea of what is an acceptable answer, Meanwhile you have no problems being deceptive yourself as evidenced above. Whatever you consider BJJ, thats what I do. And yes, BJJ does not represent real fights, neither does MMA. They are sports. Whats so hard to understand about that answer? Searching for material for more strawman arguments?

No...my answer remains the same...lets wait and see how it develops because the sample size is too small. I've been consistent about this. I thought it may eventually look like GKYS but lets see.

Meanwhile, you like to draw wild conclusions from a few short vids and pronounce wholesale abandonment of KSW! You clearly have blinders on instead of considering the possibility that KSW utilized in MMA may not be what you initially envisioned it to be.

 

I should point out that while I'm allowed to sarcastically call myself a lying scumbag, for you to do so is libellous.
Yet again, I said folkstyle wrestling, the correct name for the style, especially when done outside of an educational establishment BEFORE you said ssireum, so HOW was I being at all dishonest? Considering your petty snideness when you've decided that people haven't understood you, your behaviour when you have flat out made a mistake is somewhat inappropriate.

Right, so if BJJ is a SPORT then how the hell does "I do BJJ" answer the question what NON SPORT training do you do???????? :bang::bang::bang::bang:

This is a fatally flawed argument, as I've already tried to point out. If that's what KSW looks like in a high pressure environment, then what is the purpose/efficacy/point of the KSW training that the majority of people do that looks nothing like it whatsoever?

 

And nor does KSW, leaving us with preparing for the realities of combat in the most realistic manner possible.

Which method is closer to a real confrontation? Patterns and line drills or drilling against a fully resisting opponent?

This is not a style specific question

Once you offer the correct answer - which is the latter - you are left with the dichotomy of a restricted skill set drilled under pressure being easier to deploy in combative circumstances.

Less is sometimes more - which is exactly how Kano trounced the traditional Ryu at the police championships. As a rule of thumb that is true far more often than not - style drilled under pressure works under pressure; any style that isn't doesn't

 

I see. Your general rude behavior...you pass off as mild sarcasm. But my milder comments rise to the level of snideness. Yeah...that makes sense. Coming from you, it really does make sense.

You still dont get it. I don't know if you have been following the thread completely or if you have skipped around, only reading snippets here and there. What you consider non-sport versus sport may differ from me.

I'm big enough to realize that you may have your views and I have mine and we don't have to agree but you can't accept that so you think I never answered your question. Keep :bang::bang::bang::bang: if that makes you feel better.

More wold conclusions. LOL.

I posted those vids so that we can all get on the same page and see how KSW may work in a MMA fight but clearly you don't have the mindset of useful debate, rather you settle in your own opinions and dismiss everything else.

I was thinking something along the lines of....okay in the first video 0:00 to 0:50 shows this stance and that stance and this type of strike. Does any of that appear in KSW? or was that purely from MMA training? Could we be mistakening the clinchwork as collegiate wrestling when it could have come from ssireum in this particular case?

or

From 1:25 to 1:35...that was an axe kick followed by a hook kick. Thats in the KSW material...but kind of off balance. the set up looked more TKD...

or

From 2:20 to 2:30...we see positioning for a throw....could it be judo? something from KSW? Could it be from KSW but is not being executed correctly? or is the technique flawed in some way?


Instead of looking at the vids and debating honestly, you have wholesale dismissal of KSW, label it purely MT and folkstyle wrestling and think you know what you are talking about.

 

Says the person who is unwilling to answer a really simple question and has instead resorted to ad hominem slurs

Your personally offensive attempts at put downs you mean?
None of which changes the fact that you have libelled me.

Well maybe say what you consider it to be and then we can take it from there. As it is you've still made no attempt to answer a very simple question.

 

Wait...now i've libelled you? Where? You called yourself a lying scumbag, to which I replied that there was no need to call yourself that?

 

Yet again, you assigning motive based on your own prejudices, you know, that thing you wildly and abusively accuse others of?
I've looked. I've debated honestly. It looks EXACTLY like Muay Thai and folkstyle except for the odd occasion (like the first 45 seconds of Sanchez vs Toughill) where they throw a wild kick that doesn't do anything.
Those handful of moments aside it looks nothing like KSW as generally practised, and also looks nothing like what you yourself say that full contact KSW should look like.
How is this dishonest and how is this not clear debate?

 

WRONG!

See, your selective memory is a major issue in this thread.
The fact that you didn't pick it up the first time I said it suggests that you're not reading posts properly. You know, that thing you wildly and abusively accuse others of?

 

Look again...post 608...it has not been edited and is in its original form.

You asked, "so who's being disingenuous?"

I replied, "You are and you don't even know it."

The whole lying scumbag is all you even though you want to attribute it to me.

It is YOUR selective reading AND memory working against you.

 

I would look at how you structure your posts better then. If the first sentence of my quoted post says I'm a lying scumbag and you reply "you are" then it implies a link. Especially if you then continue to discuss the first sentence of my quoted post. I can see how you meant it another way now you've clarified it, but it reads equally well both ways.
But anyway, as you've yet to illustrate how I was being disingenuous.....

 

Oh, so your mistake and misreading...and jumping to conclusions (no surprise) is still MY fault due to sentence structuring.

You don't think your attempt to to attribute name-calling to me when, in reality, it was your words and your mistake and now are trying to play it off as sentence structuring...as yet another example of you being disingenuous?

The difference between you and I is that when we differ in opinion, i go a few rounds but accept the fact that we'll just differ and let it go and move on to the next topic. Meanwhile, you will hold onto a question and my reply from nearly 400 posts ago and nag about it just because you didn't like my answer?

As for honest debate...there you go again...wholesale dismissal. Are you sure you havent missed anything or misconstrued anything in your viewing of the vids? You sure seemed to think I libelled you on post 608.

 

You've not attempted to answer the question at all, so I have no idea what your opinion is! I'm trying to ascertain what your opinion is rather than just blindly assuming that we have nothing in common, especially as it's a fairly core issue running through all the discussion. The fact that you have continuously ducked this and other questions harms your credibility and leads people to question your motives.

I'm saying what I see. That is honest discussion. If you accept that people hold different viewpoints to you why do you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being dishonest?
Indeed, show me one example where I've been dishonest about anything in this thread?

 

No, when I read it, I was offended. Therefore it was obviously open to misinterpretation. How is that dishonest?