krav maga love it

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by nico77, May 7, 2016.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Fair enough.

    At first I thought you wrote "auteur level", which sounds awesome :)

    The fact that it would need tweaking is all I am saying.

    If we look at that video of the awful MMA match with the Krav guy, it looks to me that he largely fails because he looks so much more uncomfortable and rattled than the other guy. It didn't look like he was overwhelmingly outmatched technically (I didn't watch the whole thing though).

    Having said that, pressure over technical finesse is supposed to be their big thing, so he was definitely failed in that regard I suppose.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    damn typos!!! :)

    The problem isn't the techniques of Krav - which actually are just taken from elsewhere anyway; I have yet to see a "Krav technique" - it is the training method

    The guys that founded Krav had a basis in other systems that they combined: what is being taught is the fruit of their labors...but if you are starting out in bodybuilding and try and follow the routine of Lee Haney you will not get too far because although you are using the optimized end product you have not gone through the same development process to be able to perform it

    Guess what other art is like this? JKD
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's okay, I know it's because you are probably in the middle of a high speed chase or shoot-out or something :)

    Doesn't that vary between schools?
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The majority have "pseudo pressure" - it has an impression of being real because of the type of attacks used, but is not faster or harder than karate one step sparring

    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    What he said, its allot like the demos you used to see from the wing chun crowd, or the karate crow, just happens to be more realistic attacks for the most part, or rather attacks you are more likely to see in this day and age

    Come to think of it the arguments similar to the ones seen on other forums in the early 00s from parts of the wing chun and TCMA community about why they didn't work in the ring and the cage:
    1) we dont train for the ring specifically so it doesn't work there as well as other arts,
    2) we are more all encompassing in our approach and do weapons, multiple opponents etc not just 1 on 1
    3) the rules take away too many of our preferred targets
    4) its not realistic as you know how you will be attacked and by whom

    Actually scratch that its exactly the same argument :eek:
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Meet the new boss.....:D
  7. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    This feels like an argument about nothing.
    If a student of FMA who had spent whatever proportion of his time studying blades and whatever else FMA does, wanting to see how tough he was, went up against a trained MMA fighter and got beaten up, what would you say?
    Would you say (like me) 'What a twit' or would you question the validity of FMA?

    And who would you rather fight, an athlete or someone in pseudo-traditional garb of any kind.
    Some krav maga is better than other. But that goes for anything.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You kinda crap on your own argument when you use an example and don't even know what it does

    Like this you mean?


    You are missing the point - it isn't the garb

    When the consistency falls heavily on the "other" side then questions need asking

    Note the other art I referenced as having this problem is the one i actually teach
  9. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    TMA vs. MMA

    I chose Laugar as an example you would relate to. I would not cast aspersions on it or any other TMA. It's just obvious the time you spend training one thing is not spent on something else.
    But don't you think that if you faced a stronger tougher street fighter than yourself and you could reach for a pole or bat, your laugar weapons training might even the odds are bit?
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This video has been doing the rounds recently, and I actually like it as an aside


    This was then lauded by so called "TMA" community to advocate their style....forgetting that the style is irrelevant when teh training is not up to snuff

    Otherwise boxercise would be the same as boxing
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Honestly where I walk around there aren't that many poles or bats, and if i did happen to find and use one on a empty handed person in the UK ID be facing a fair amount of time in prison lol

    My current Chinese sifu weapon stuff would be a better example because we actually spar with those weapons not just do forms and one step sparring, but honestly I'm 40, stay out of bad places and am 6ft and a powerlifter the odds of me getting into a fight are statistically so low that weapons aren't a priority for me
  12. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    You brought up the camo pants. They are ridiculous if they are intended to convey military toughness in the ring.
    If they help you hide from a sniper they might have their use.

    Well done. You want to compare the best of FMA principles with some poor numpty who things he's tough because he's been told military cqb (and he might not even be any good at that) prepares him for the ring.
    I can't be bothered finding some bad FMA to make a point you seem to acknowledge. David Harrison found some bad laugar, icefield found something better, my dad is bigger than yours, and my instructor is badder than yours.
    But since you set stock in videos and ring sports check:

    Senior FEKM Kravist, active police officer, ex French Free fight and KB champion. If you want to tell him his training lacks resistance, or his teaching, I can find you his email address.
    If you want to tell Steve Valente, world Thai Boxing Champion, who teaches at my friend and instructor Gilles Hassine's Krav Maga school, that Gilles' training lacks realism and resistance, he might ask you how you would know.
    Hannibal, why judge the good by the bad?

    Not pretending to know much FMA does not crap on any argument as you so elegantly put it.
    Training for something prepares you for that thing more than training for something else. This is what should not be contentious.
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    And again you miss the point by using a throwaway phrase as the crux of your counter - don't concentrate on the finger

    You said "FMA in an MMA environment" - I then showed it to you

    Most military H2H is pretty poor by the way, because they are usually armed to the teeth - the units that do have such skills bring them from elsewhere

    This is not even a coherent sentence - what point are you trying to make with it? Bad FMA exists? Damn straight it does - and you know what else? They get called on it

    An MMA fighter in an MMA fight and a klickboxer kickboxing...amazing

    I fail to see how having skill in ANOTHER DISCIPLINE is supposed to prove a point....aside from anything else it speaks to the EXACT point I made earlier about the founders - thanks for proving that for me

    And as he is succeeding in a ring environment does that not also invalifate your own point about not being transferable?

    What point are you even discussing here?

    Where did I say that? Nice strawman

    See above only now it is StrawMEN

    I don't - I use the bad as a way to highlight the good

    Yes it does - you cannot argue a position for what you do not know

    It isn't PROVIDED the training actually DOES prepare you for that - and when it doesn't then don't get bent out of shape when someone points that out

    And again - just because you are arguing with a scattergun approach - purpose is IRRELEVANT if the training does not prepare you

    Do i need to make you read about Kano and the Police championships?

    Guess what the first question I ask is when someone tells me they also do JKD?
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hah. Shidokan is known as the triathlon of martial arts and exponents regularly compete in a format that is a round of knockdown, a round of thai and a round of mma.
    Shidokan people generally do ok in mma and are functional in stand up, clinch and groundfighting.
    If you want are martial art that shows exponents that aren't functional in mma then shidokan is not the you're looking for.
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I also don't know why you would pick FMA for being representative of me as it only a subset of what I do
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    To me the "can operate in a real fight but not mma" line of reasoning is like saying you can drive a car round a rally stage but can't drive a car around some regular roads.
    Now absolutely there are differences between the two types of driving and if you want to be functional in one specifically you should train for that one. But there is enough basic cross over in terms of car handling, pedals, steering, acceleration, etc that if you can function in the more demanding discipline you should also be functional in the other.
    And it should be the same for mma and real fighting imho.
    At it's basic core mma contains a lot of facets you find in real fights and self defence situations that devolve into a fight. Punches thrown at the head, grabs and clinches, having to move on the floor effectively and regain your feet, fighting against vertical structures, maintaining your cool and bottle when under pressure, landing shots on an aggressively moving opponent, etc, etc.
    Now if you can't deal with those things as a matter of course then in what sense can you b e said to have any sort of versatile or holistic self defence skills?
    And please note I'm in no way saying that mma = self defence. It's not. And it isn't the best route for training if that's your intended sphere of functionality imho.
  17. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Krav Maga training does not prepared you well for the ring because it is designed for something else. What is there to be called out about?
    Did I say the skills were not transferable? They are very similar hence the many combat athletes in the FEKM. The preparation is different and more focused for the ring. Isn't
    it not?

    You have said in this thread that the problem is not km but the way they train. I have found you people who train both MMA and KM. They are tough and real.
    You yourself have said that MMA is not a discipline but a rule set. That MMAists come from other disciplines - but when I show you someone from KM who does MMA it's another discipline.
    When, in this thread or others have you used anything to highlight good km? I would be really glad if you have because though somewhat acerbic I tend to lenjoy your comments even when I disagree.
    But the only thing that irks me here is your stubborn persistence in seeming to denigrate KM on the basis of this dull bout.

    If that's not what you're doing, please let me know.
    And I'm aware of the Kano episode. Again, one of the reasons there are so many combat athletes in the FEKM.
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    What is KM designed for?

    And does KM taught in Israel Differ from that taught in the France / UK?
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is a variation on the "too deadly to spar argument" - JKD is not designed for the ring, but facets of it adapt very well

    The KM fighter who can fight in the ring will beat a "non ring" KM fighter - which leads to what conclusion?

    ATTRIBUTES developed via METHODOLOGY trump STYLE

    Which Illustrates my point :)

    It IS another discipline - Krav doesn't have anything that is "a Krav technique" per se; it is a hybrid. The "kravness" is in the blend of those disciplines

    Again, akin to JKD in that sense

    The discussion was about poorer quality methods so that was where the videos went....feel free to post an example of good stuff, because I always enjoy a solid video

    Never actually referenced the bout - that was someone else....and I have trained with a LOT of Krav guys, so it is not based on videos

    It isn't what I am doing
  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    From what I've seen the Israelis do loads of high intensity kickboxing sparring, so I'm finding this whole thread a bit confusing.

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