I've got some questions on shuto strikes - How do you form you hand - fingers straight together or curled? What part of the hand do you strike with? The soft padded bit or the bony bit above your wrist? Is your hand rotated? The reason I ask... I've read a wing chun article with advice that was the exact opposite of what I do. Not that I care, but I'm interested to see how many variations there are in the karate community.
agreed. IMO striking with that part of the hand is like elbowing with a straight arm, instant break/dislocation besides there's not much need for such a hard striking surface since the knifehand in itself provides necessary force, and except perhaps thetemple, you ain't gonna hit anything hard, just softer bits like the neck, throat, floating ribs and stuff
ive broken with both shuto and haito strikes the latter being more difficult because of the smaller stiking surface area (although i felt i could generate more speed with it). I think the general 'form' in basics and kata is for a slight curve in the fingers with them tight together. I would agree that the striking part of the hand for a shuto is the fleshy bit between the bottom of the hand (top of wrist) and bottom of finger - I wouldnt strike with the bony part of the wrist at all. Target areas would be temple or throat area,below nose etc, (lots of pressure point areas), collar bone. I think if i was in a situation where i had exposed the ribs, and in particlar the lower end floating ribs i would be driving a knee or good uppecut to that region.
I don't use knife hand strikes in tameshiwari although sometimes when performing a break using a palm strike, having passed through the object I'm breaking, I notice my hand twists slightly and it can look as though it was done with a knife hand. There's also the forearms too though. I often substitute those for knife hand strikes depending on range, how much damage I want to do and what the target is.
IMHO only, more straight with only a slight bend at the fingers, followed-through with a quick snap just before contact. If it's totally straight to the point of almost being bent backwards, it seems weaker as the energy seems to be leaving through the finger tips rather than being focused on the striking area. If it's curled to the point of almost resembling a tiger-claw, it would seem to be stronger than if it was totally straight but the impact might be a bit "thuddish" and the curled baby finger might suffer from hard impact if hit at a weird angle. Soft padded bit, as the others have mentioned. The bony bit is vulnerable to breaking (or at least a lot of pain) especially if met with a hard object. As mentioned above, the hand is rotated or snapped at the end.
Gyaku's rules on the shuto: Striking area: 1. Use the fleshy bit to hit denser targets (like the jaw line) that need extra reach 2. Use the bony part of the wrist for closer, fleshier parts - like the throat - I have used it on many occassions, and I have never heard of anyone injurying themselves, there is no danger of injury, unless you go for something really stupid - like the guy's forehead! Curling: It doesn't matter as long as you pull your thumb (while still having the thumb in a curled position) back as far as possible, this will help keep the shuto's shape as it impacts . I also recomend keeping your fingers as relaxed as possible- (the only tension should be from the thumb) as it will allow you to 'whip' the hand harder. This will also stop them impacting on each other - which can hurt when you strike really hard as a resiliant target. Hope that helps!
Fingers strait, hand rigid and tensed. Strike with the hard bit just above the wrist. Hand poker strait in line with the direction your arm is going. Reading a wing chung manual on ANYTHING will undoutedly end in you doing things bridging on utter stupidity. Remember it is a chinese martial art, not japanese. It has no applicability to karate
Hi The Count I think a little more respect may be in order here. You will actually see many similarities and benefits to be gained from taking a broader perspective of ALL arts. I am NOT a Wing Chun practitioner (although I have done a little), but I do have over 2 decades of involvement in Karate-Do. I recently learned from one of my FMA students who is 2nd Dan in Wado Ryu, that Shiomitsu Sensei has recently been teaching something similar to Chi Sau of Wing Chun and Higot Hubud Lubud of FMA. This being because he realised the benefit of close range sensitivity training. I would also direct you towards the "Bubishi - Bible of Karate," which very clearly shows many links between Japanese Karate-Do and Chinese Kung Fu. On the topic of the thread, most striking arts use "knifehand" and it is not unique to Karate, although some media coverage may have popularised and associated it in this way. i.e "Karate Chop!" Best regards Peter Lewis - 5th Dan www.yuli-romo.com www.bakbakan.com www.worcester-eskrima.co.uk
True. So I decided to give a TKD perspective. The way I learn it we keep the fingers together, don't curl them and use the 'padded' part of the hand when striking.
We are thought to tuck the thumb real tight. The fingers are to be slightly curled and tight to eachother. Like if you were pulling a rubberband with your fingertips. This is how we learn. Striking hard target with the fleshy part. Softer targets could be atttack slightly lower, more towards the wrist. It works quite well. I guess it depends on the style really.
TKD does more breaking techniques than most arts, so the use of a soft part against a hard target is interesting. I have always used the soft part of the edge of my hand for this technique. It can be very easy to damage the wrist bones or little finger if the strike is misjudged. Obviously, the thread could progress into types of application of the knifehand. Targets and directions of strike for example. The fact that it is banned in many tournaments does make it a very dangerous technique, which has excellent self-protection uses. Best regards Peter www.yuli-romo.com www.bakbakan.com www.worcester-eskrima.co.uk
The mechanics and application of Wing Chung and most forms of Karate are completely different, the way they are linked in individual techniques. I have seen someone try and combine karate and wing chung, it does not work. Grafting kung fu into karate odes not work in the first place, you need to change the way you do things totally.
Interesting that some very senior Japanese and Okinawan instructors can see the similarities and are able to blend the arts extremely well. As mentioned I am aware of Shiomitsu Sensei of Wado Ryu doing this very effectively and Kanazawa Sensei Of Shotokan has blended Japanese and Chinese arts for several decades. Many Western instructors have achieved a similar level of understanding. A little look more deeply will soon reveal that even the names of some Karate Kata are actually of Chinese origin. The Bubishi gives very clear links between Chinese and Japanese arts. This book is well worth reading for any open-minded Karate-ka seeking to gain a deeper understanding of their art. Best regards Peter Lewis - 5th Dan www.yuli-romo.com www.bakbakan.com www.worcester-eskrima.co.uk
I'm not debating the fact that karate has links to china and all that, im debating the relevance of wing Chun in particular to karate. Karate is much more circular and involves a lot more hip use. Wado Ryu I can understand being combined with Kung Fu, its philosophy would be excellent to go with a system like Lau Gar or perhaps Mantis.
Yep. Kushanku / Kosokun, chinto, Naihanchi/Tekki, Wanshu to name a few. All reportedly of chinese origin (most named after the person who either invented or inspired the kata).
As a practioner of wing chun and karate instructor - I must disagree. MAny of the basic concepts in KArate can be found in WC. One example is the teisho uke. Historical sources like the bubishi suggest that it can be used exactly the same way as pak sau in WC. Another concept in Lap lau - Goju kata have many applications that use identical pulling techniques to pull an opponant into a strike. THe centre line theory is central to WC BUT - The centre line theory is also quoted by Sensei Miyagi (who had trained in China). He believed that karate was the art of attacking and defending along the centre line - hence most of the circular techniques in goju are practised vertically along the centre line. Also the vertical fist (central to WC) is found in several older karate kata - such at Chinte and Nepai. Bong sau or the wing hand block is also found in numerous kata - normally it is incorrectly taught as the 'wind-up' movement of the Uchi Uke. This is actually a gedan block. Essentially the difference between the two is that karate tends to use more elongated techniques. But the above mentioned similarities mean that WC is very relevant to karate and vica versa.
