Kenjutsu in London

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Nykout, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    The you'll probably be happier with my initial suggestion ;)
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member


  3. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    This is also a good suggestion.
  4. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Good question. The things that are of utmost importance to me in training Kenjutsu:
    - actually learning how to fight with the sword, so not being restricted by sport rules (see, this is why I will never choose Kendo)

    - regarding the previous point, it is vital to present at least some sparring, because without the enemy sword flying your way at high speed, you will never know how to truly fight.

    - not really that important, but if a school added some aspects of Niten Ichi Ryu, I would be in heaven (see what I did here)

    - and last thing, I know Kenjutsu is Kenjutsu, but some additional weapon training (Nagamaki in particular) wouldn't hurt at all

    Also I would like to avoid HEMA, since it is quite popular in my home area, and I would like to learn more foreign aspects of swordfighting. Without necessarily going to Japan.
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    If a school added aspects of Niten then I know a few guys who would have some issues with that. ;)

    Incidentally, no sparring in Niten.


    I think you would benefit from understanding what you are getting into.

    If you are into Nagamaki then Delaney Sensei is your man but it won't be something you study right away, there are other things you have to learn first in Araki-ryu Gunyo Kogusoku.

    Keep in mind that kata is the central practice method in koryu, so if you want kenjutsu you will be doing kata practice. Whether you will spar and at what level you spar at will depend on the ryu-ha.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  6. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Ok, I think I have made some false assumptions.
    Forgive my western mindset, but where I live, the HEMA roots grow deep. And in HEMA, you will always get full contact sparring. I have probably tried to incorporate the elements I am used to to Kenjutsu, which turns out to be quite different from what I thought. More so, some aspects of those two arts cannot be reconciled, mainly due to historical reasons.

    In other words, allow me to reword myself:
    Now I see that sparring in a way I was imagining it, does not lie in the foundation of Kenjutsu. I still am highly doubtful towards how Kendo can actually teach swordfighting, but let's leave that for another matter. So, again to the question of what I am exactly looking for in Kenjutsu: I am not sure. All I know is that I want to become a better swordsman and actually develop swordfighting skills, not limited by sport rules. That is all I am looking for in Kenjutsu.
    And I have no problem with kata. I actually like it a lot when we do it in Kyokushin.

    Who could possibly complain for having Niten elements taught in his school?
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Talk to Delaney Sensei, seriously the chap has an obscene amount of experience.
    I think you'll find koryu kata a bit different to what's found in Karate. Kata are very deep and, imo, rather sophisticated however they are not a quick route to the acquisition of skill or ability. There are some very good reasons for this but they mean that you as a student has to show dedication and that you are trustworthy.

    Yes it sounds like a bad movie but that's the price you pay for trying to pass on a living tradition.

    Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu is a koryu. Koryu have a strong focus on maintaining the art and protecting its integrity. You don't teach a koryu unless you have permission to do so and you most certainly do not nick bits and try and incorporate it into something else you are teaching.

    So if you have someone trying to pass off what they do as being from a certain ryu then you will get a load of elitist snobs like me making a fuss. :D
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  8. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    If it's worth anything.

    I've taken stuff I've only ever trained via kata-geiko and used it in sparring in an unrelated art.

    Specifically waza from Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu during a stick fighting session, spontaneity at its best.

    Oh and if Niten interests you due to the nito aspect then it's not the only art to have it, like I said talk to Delaney Sensei. ;)
  9. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    I actually send a mail to the Sensei Delanay's school 2 days ago, but no reply yet. And they don't post the information about when the classes take place.
  10. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Don't worry he will be in touch.

    He has his hands full at the moment with a new baby.

    As far as classes go well it can be at various times depending on circumstances.

    I'm in the Midlands and I used to travel down once a month for an extended session, there is also a chap who flies over from Ireland to train. He's very accommodating for those who are serious.

    Unfortunately I don't train in anything anymore due to ill health but I'm damn glad I had the chance to train with him. Learnt a great deal.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  11. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Wow, that sounds amazing. In the mail I have written that I am ready to train even 7 days a week, so I hope I will not change my plans and train with this guy. I am now 99.9% sure, I choose Delanay's school.
    I hope you get to your health back soon :)
  12. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Read up on koryu in general.

    Also if I recall there is a recommended reading list on Delaney Sensei's website, that's worth a look too if you intend to pursue koryu.

    Start learning Japanese.

    Seriously, start learning it if you have any serious ambition to study koryu bujutsu properly.

    Delaney Sensei lived over there long term and he's fluent but it will benefit you a great deal if you can read it. Not necessarily right away but it's definitely something to strive for eventually.
  13. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    I have exchanged a few mails with Sensei Delaney, as well as have read articles about Koryu Bujutsu. I do still have some questions, for example, how different is the unarmed combat in Koryu Bujutsu school, from the one in Bujinkan Ninjutsu school?
  14. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    The kata are done properly. :p

    At a basic technical level there won't be much difference, other than ryu specific aspects, it's the training methodology and quality control that will differ.

    Keep in mind though that you can't generalise with koryu, each one is different so it's often better to look at things from a ryu-ha perspective.

    I've trained in two koryu and spent some time in the Bujinkan, the general approach to training and atmosphere is very different between those koryu dojo and the Buj.
  15. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    I see, thank you. If you don't mind I wanted to ask some more questions:

    Is it possible to say which of those two (Koryu Bujutsu and Bujinkan Ninjutsu) focus more on empty hand combat, and which on weapon combat?

    As you have trained in both Koryu and Bujinkan, can you say which one has prepared you more for real combat?

    If I can train in one of these for 2 years with an intensive program, which one would benefit me more, i.e. in which of these I would learn more during 2 years (so a relatively short amount of time)?

    And last question, could you please tell me the technical differences (disregarding things like attitude to training and training atmosphere) between Koryu Bujutsu and Bujinkan Ninjutsu?

    Thank you
  16. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  17. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Yes, I have read that before.
  18. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    I studied batto with John Evans for a short time around 2003-2004. He's an absolutely fantastic instructor - incredibly knowledgeable, and moves with absolute precision. Whilst i eventually moved onto other things, my huge respect for John has always remained. I cannot stress the attention he gives to his art and the finest of details. His students also display an impressive level of skill and ability in their form, cutting, and sparring (with bokken). Perhaps a bit old-school and overly refined/sophisticated for some to appreciate (specifically the MMA/Jason Bourne/Krav Maga stereotype), but highly recommended.
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Gendai sword.

    Always an odd beast to my mind, I'm not knocking the school just that I've always found the idea of gendai sword arts a little odd.

    Another one for the OP to check out though. :)
  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Well with that article in mind and the others you have read, what do you think about studying a koryu for only two years and wanting it to relate to modern self defence.

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