This is reminding me of something that happened in my town: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...i-wrongly-accused-of-paedophilia-8909228.html This kind of thing is what springs to my mind when people start talking about mob "justice".
What I'm saying is torture and putting heads on spike wasn't for pleasure. If punishment for raping and killing kids was a $10 fine every pedo would be going hell for leather. If that punishment was removal of genitals with a spoon, raped with a red hot poker, beaten then stoned to death, I think the statistics would fall dramatically. That is the point
Oh also someone asked before how to make executions better. I got to reading about them the other week when I was reading the debate for the death penalty and I'd actually like states to revert to using firing squads. Few reasons, but I imagine it would be cheaper than the injection which I think was the question.
I don't get why you feel mercy toward some who do terrible things, and not others. If the logic is about the social value of a person, why not take it to its logical conclusion? Are serial killers and sexual predators fully aware of what is right or wrong? Warning: bad language in the link below: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201212/the-making-serial-killer Sounds like neural pathology to me, so I don't get how you can draw a line between that and autism or dementia.
We already know the threat of DEATH doesn't make people stop commiting crimes. The reasoning at least in part is because, incredibly, people don't think they'll get caught. Also there already are countries that do that sort of thing. The Middle East comes to mind. They still have those crimes on a decent scale. Haven't you noticed countries with high violence and general lawlessness also tend to have governments with state sponsored torture and killings? There doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent effect there.
Very sad about that man, and I take your point. However this case is completely different, he has all but admitted it !
Regarding the "where?": It's nice that you think that, but where is the evidence? And you still haven't addressed the issue of wrongful conviction. It is impossible to have a 0% rate of wrongful conviction. So again, is it worth it for a proportion of innocent people to suffer "removal of genitals with a spoon, raped with a red hot poker, beaten then stoned to death", if it works as a deterrent to most offenders?
They would also be less cruel: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/oklahoma-execution-history-botched-execution
Yes, and you've already decided that his claims of insanity are a thinly-veiled excuse. Have you met him?
I disagree there is even a question edit: To expand on this, I disagree that there needs to be some great solution to deterring criminals. People will always commit these crimes. Mental illness exists and is still very misunderstood, especially in relation to crime. On top of that, lets be honest here, morality and legality are purely imaginary social constructs that exist because we decide they do. All you need is someone who doesn't agree with them and boom. You have a crime.
I said it was sad about that Iranian chap you linked, not the Brazilian. No I haven't met him, have you? Is he a poor little twoubled soul who's had a tewibble life, should we hug him and squeeze him and tell him it's all going to be all right.? If he did it, and I'm sure he did, he has no place being alive, whether or not he is crazy or faking it. He is dangerous, has killed and should be dead the same as you would with a mauling dog.
So are you saying its black and white, they rape/ kill or molest and its proven more than beyond reasonable doubt. Irrespective of mental health? Bang bang? I agree, but kiddy fiddlers should be shot in the stomache.
No I haven't, nor am I in possession of all available evidence. Which is why I am not in a position to say whether he deserves torture and death, or a hug. So how do you feel about the examples of dementia, brain damage, autism or other pathologies I brought up? Take them out the back and shoot them like a dog?
If there caught killing and raping? Absolutely ! Although the persons whom allowed them to freely roam should be held accountable. Edit: I'M fresh off a plane from fiji. Whilst dipping in the Hilton's swimming pool, I met an older guy who was shook up, arm pinched/ broken skin etc. he said a guy in the pool had an outstretched hand. Thinking he wanted to shake hands, he went closer. The guy grabbed him around the neck and tried to take him under! He got free and found whom he thought was the father/ carer and voiced his concerns, to recieve a rude " stop picking on my son!" What would happen if he grabbed a little kid? I blame the parent.
People with dementia and autism can't function in society. Psychopaths however are perfectly capable of functioning in society. That's how I can draw a line. However, I must say that if someone with autism or dementia raped and murdered a lot of people, I'd put them to death as well. I don't care if they don't understand what they're doing. Psychopaths, people with autism or dementia or whatever else. If someone commits multiple cases of murder or rape or both, they should be put down. Even if only for the fact it grants a bit of closure for the victim's loved ones.
But he's removed from public society might have been a better way of putting it. Prison society I don't think really counts and I could see it being a hard thing to discuss on here seeing as people from different countries have very different prisons. The state of American prisons seems significantly different from ours. Ah but now we're into another area of disagreement which is that I don't agree with the concept that people need to be anywhere near satisifed with where and how their taxes are spent. My understanding is that's the entire point of taxes is to take money off people that they don't want to give and spend it on things they'd rather not spend it on. More at Hatsie and any lurker who agrees with him. Sorry, this sort of thing is a subject that gets me rather invested. I'm an elitist dick like that You know, I'd actually be very interested in what the results could be from a prison for, say, child abusers, where the prison allowed them access to images of children. Not new ones obviously, but the ones that have already been taken and confiscated from suspects and whatnot. There's an interesting theory for Japan that one of the reasons for their lower rates of child abuse is their allowance of...questionable...versions of hentai that allow people to get it out of their system. I doubt we'll ever get to see a proper study into that without it getting ripped part by the masses and its results being ignored if they show a positive correlation but I'd still find it interesting. This comes into my earlier point about differences in prison systems. While I don't know much about the UK one I've never got the impression its anywhere near as barbaric as the American ones. My personal belief is that its actually people with beliefs like Hatsie's that allowed that to happen. Its easy to end up with a prison system full of gangs, rape and violence when the public don't care and feel like they deserve it anyway. I'm probably going to sound very mean here but I can't think of better wording: I don't care. The mental health and recovery of the victim's families shouldn't be the concern of the justice (I'd really like to start calling it the "criminal prosecution") service. That's what therapists are for. State supplied if needs be. My feelings on courts and prisons is that they exist (in these sorts of cases where its basically life sentences) to segregate criminals from wider society. That's it. Once you start saying "well what about the families" or "but it was a kid" or some other thing based off emotion you've damaged the system and its gone beyond its rightful use. When you start trying to play to the victim's families sense of justice then you end up falling into a system that carries out the same sort of things it was invented to prevent. I'm also going to pull you up on how throughout the thread you've used that term for these people. I read far too many random things and have far too much useless trivia in my head to remember names but I'm sure there's a well known psychological thing behind doing that to dehumanise and the slippery slope it leads to. This is one of the elephants in the room. I'll leave murder generally because it has too many subheadings, but when you're talking about crimes like the one in the OP they're basically always committed by an ill person. Its annoying me that I can't remember the study or the numbers but I had a friend who was studying criminal psychology in uni and a study of UK prisons found a large number of prisoners had some kind of mental disorder that was normally undiagnosed. And that was general population. Once you get into murderers and rapists I'm sure those numbers climb quite steeply. This is what I was saying earlier in this post about mental illnesses and crime: There is a very strong link between the two but people don't want to admit it because it takes away their ability to feel superior since a lot of modern day people accept mental illnesses as an unfortunate problem. Its hard for people to marry that sympathy for mental illness with their want to despise people who commit serious crimes.
Huh? No. I'm saying the idea there needs to be some special punishment for crimes we find repulsive is wrong because I think the justice system should be completely objective and the whole reason we find these crimes repulsive in the first place is purely subjective because its based on modern day morality which is completely made up.
