Jumped and mugged last night - Random reflections

What the heck is that thing...

 

Glad to read that some action was taken on the attackers! I wasn't able to get any justice on the incidents I was attacked, and I think that drew out the time it took for me to "get over it". police we dismissive, and despite being hit over the head with a wooden plank at one incident and the Police admitting to knowing who they were (repeat offenders) in hindsight I felt like it was too much paper work for them to bother with.

I recall I was similar for a while afterwards, getting very twitchy in certain scenarios. I used to have a lot of bad dreams about it also, but in time it passed.
One silver lining I took from it is knowing what that adrenal dump felt like and being able to control it better in time, I feel it coming, and had a lot of violent situations avoided by dealing with the "interview" much better to the point that it hasn't happened again.
I was recently told my my other half that I have a face now in certain conflicts that potentially look to turn violent, and she doesn't like it as it looks like I am about to go 100% (which I never have had to). So maybe this is part of my body language I developed.

I hope you can get back into training I did the same when I was at Uni, stopped for 1-2 years then found something I could afford, the training helped me a lot, along side studying a lot of literature on that part of the incident (Mostly Geoff Thompson stuff at the time, late 90s early 00s).

 

Thing is though...what you're allowed to do, what the police think you did and what a jury thinks you did can be different things.
Obviously you have a right to defend yourself (and others) from crime by pre-emptively striking but I think it's wrong to think that that's the long and short of it.
Other people may see things differently and that can absolutely effect how you get treated after the fact even if you acted within the law.

 

yes, this was in the 90s for me, and that meant after the first 2 times of reporting it, I didn't bother reporting it the subsequent times.

oh yes I feel for you, it's harder now to balance such things, after I left uni my kungfu lesson was £3 for 2 hours and boxing £1.50 for 2 hour session - cost seem so much more difficult to balance now.

for me I felt somewhat the same, I had already been through and dealt with the interview stages many times with my own process after being through it, the literature I read on it helped me quantify what was going on throughout that and gave me more confidence in dealing with it on the few times it happened after.

nothing quite beats that experience, but I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone

I guess the ironic part is since the times I was beaten up, I have paid people (through kungfu, boxing, kickboxing and MMA) to beat me harder than they ever did. I never competed, but I have never been hit as hard as by a pro fighter, even through gloves, than those sad people who decided to gang up and throw fists at me until I got out.

I had a friend around recently who was there for one of those incidents and he managed to get away (i was the first on that occasion to get suckered into the beating) he remembers it differently to me - in my recollection I covered up until I could get away, in his recollection from the distance he saw me land a few solid strikes to make space to get out (include a solid punch to one of their groin which set them back.) - to this day I don't remember any of that, I was just glad to get away without any major injuries.

 

Well don't beat yourself up. We all do it, make excuses. A billion people do yoga etc. because they want relaxation and mindfulness, but a fraction train to fight because let's face it, a night after a sparring match is not necessarily a relaxing one. I have inflammation bothering me right now to remind me of the last time I sparred pretty heavily.

It's probable that even with extra training the outcome would have been the same, which from your account, was a good thing. Taking a beating like a tank, to me, is way more sign of martial prowess than throwing an extra punch or two.

Not sure if any of you follow US sports but a pro basketballer, Mike Scott, was attacked by a crowd of Philadelphia fans a couple weeks back, for wearing the opponent teams' jersey! He held off half a dozen angry fans...I'll try to find the fight video, but you can tell he's had some sort of training.

 

The best defense at court in a street fight like that is being the only one with injuries. It's hard to say "it's his fault" when he's the one with all the cuts and bruises. That doesn't mean you don't fight back, but in this situation your focus should be 90% defense, 10% offense, and the best offense is sometimes showing that you can take it without crawling into a ball.

Make those idiots work for it, and tire themselves out thinking they've done a number on you. Then, go report their butts to the local authorities.

Wear those wounds and scars like the Red Badge of Courage. Nothing better in life than surviving a beating, in my opinion. You can find those themes in movies, philosophy, art, etc.

 

What a load of old tosh that goes against every single self defence instructor with any credibility there is. I have literally never heard any self defence instructor with an ounce of knowledge espouse this view.

Take your beating only to find out that every fist landed had a sharpened screw driver in it?
Take a beating and find out their capacity to dole out violence lasts longer than your capacity to endure it?
Take a beating and one punch sparks you out, you smack your head off the kerb and die?

No thanks. If I'm forced into it (and I'll only fight when forced to) I'm attempting, within the law, to extricate myself from it however I can.

 

Screwdrivers? Maybe you just didn't get my point? Go ahead and escalate a fight when it's 4 vs 1, John Wick, and get back to us.

How many times have you been attacked by a gang of people? And which instructors told you the best defense against a crew of attackers is to go offensive?

If you're suggesting "run away", I'm all for that but it's not always possible in the real world. Ask Southpaw.

 

If anyone comes under attack the best thing to do is to fight back in any possible way, never take a beating because just one punch could be a fatal blow.

Anyone who's trained for a long time should go out of their way to avoid violence in the eyes of the law, that means giving people a chance to leave you alone.

And if they don't then they deserve whats coming.

Everyone has a common law right to self defence when under attack.

 

"Never take a beating." "In any way possible". Talk about unrealistic. That's the "tosh" advice if you ask me. In the real world, getting into a fight means you're taking some sort of beating and you need to be able to endure that.

And as far as the "by any means necessary", no I'm positive that is not going to work to your advantage if you get dragged into court. There is a force continuum. Your self offense options in the street are pretty limited in the civilized world.

Even basic choke holds could violate the law, but they teach those in plenty of SD courses. You'd be foolish to use one unless your life was on danger. We just had a cop in the US go to court for using one to subdue a man who then died.

 

Never been attacked by multiples thankfully. Always managed to avoid or de-escalate.

Too many to name. It'd be a shorter list to name the ones that don't advocate going offensive in order to facilitate escape. Because that list doesn't have anyone on it.

 

I'm suggesting the fairly standard self protection hierarchy of priorities or structure.
Avoid trouble if you can
Escape from trouble if you can't.
Loophole, dissuade or otherwise de-escalate rather than go physical.
Pre-empt, if you can't dissuade or de-escalate, in order to facilitate your escape to safety.
Only fight if you have no other options as fighting is stupid and dangerous (for all involved).
Always assume your attacker has mates and weapons.
If attacked my multiples, stay on your feet, stay mobile, pre-empt with aggression and venom if you can, fight back with aggression and venom if you can't. Fight to create an escape option and use it ASAP.

 

I really don't believe that is true. And I think escalating the level of violence in that way against a group a great way to get beaten even worse or killed, if you can't get away. So again, the best offense in a fight is a good defense and I think Southpaws story illustrates that.

I even said "doesn't mean you dont fight back", I said fighting back is necessary, and yes escape is always the best outcome.

But plenty of times escape is not going to happen and your best chance there is to take it like a champ without succumbing. Eventually your attackers will tire or run, and if they don't well that worst case scenario means you better be able to take more than you can dish.

Leave the movie fantasies where they belong, because plenty of self defense instructors claim you can take on 5 people yourself, and I think that's a load of tosh, personally.

 

I mean that's why the cardinal rule in boxing is protect yourself at all times. Isn't that the essence of self defense?

I don't think we disagree as much, since we both advocate movement and protecting the body while looking for an escape. Where I disagree with you is in what offensive really means. You try going offensive against a gang of people already intent on beating you, unless you are Ip Man himself it's not ending well. Better to batten down the hatches, endure, and survive. 90-10.

Sure maybe you can scare off a gaggle of hooligans with venom and spit and angry face. Maybe pop a dude on the noggin here or there. But plenty of times turtling up or running away are going to be your only options , and having done the turtle routine more than once...well, I'm still standing.

 

See I don't disagree with any of this except that last bit, about fighting back with aggression. If it's one person maybe. If it's a whole crew, youre better off saving that aggression and energy for defending your body and escape.

If you want a simple boxing analogy, it's like the difference between counter punching and swarming. You defend yourself first, and throw a counter second. Maybe you get off a solid one and that dude has had enough.

Rather than go offensive on one attacker and lose sight of the other 4...next thing you know you're in a full Nelson and now you're gonna take whatever beating they want you to have.

 

How about Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, Rory Miller, Marc McYoung, Kris Wilder, Lee Morrison, Iain Abernethy, Tony Blauer, Mick Coup, yadda yadda yadda? They do you?

I have literally never ever, seen, read or heard anyone in the self protection world (including the above mentioned) make out turtling up and taking whatever beating your attacker decides to give out is a viable defence option.
It may be what ultimately happens when all other options have failed of course but we should all do our utmost to avoid that situation.
If you're on the floor taking a shoeing then something has gone very wrong with your approach to self defence indeed.

The essence of self defence is to get home to your loved ones with the least amount of physical, mental and legal damage possible.

If they are already intent on beating you then you are already in one of the worst self defence scenarios possible aside from a flat out muder/assassination attempt.
Fight back. You may cause enough fear, pain, confusion, unwanted attention to influence the situation in your favour.
It ain't gonna be easy. But it ain't impossible either.

 

Hit him first and you won't need to defend his strike. Every strike the other person (or persons) gets off is a chance for them to prevail.

What you are advocating literally goes against the grain of every self defence instructor worth listening to as far as I can tell.