jo and bo

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by MingTheMerciles, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. MingTheMerciles

    MingTheMerciles Valued Member

    How can a Jo be compared to the bo ?
     
  2. A Bo is longer at 72 inches, compared to a Jo length of 50 inches. I believe they both have the same cross-section diameter (just over an inch?).
     
  3. MingTheMerciles

    MingTheMerciles Valued Member

    is there any different in term of how they are used ?
     
  4. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Damn! Too slow... I was going to say "by putting them side-by-side" :D

    If you mean techniques, skills, effectiveness, etc then I've only used the Bo (the kids use the Jo doing the same techniques as the adults). I imagine that in the hands of an adult the Jo would be easier to use one-handed but certain moves that rely on the length of the Bo would mean you suddenly come to the end of your stick far quicker than you expect ;)

    What's behind the question?
     
  5. armanox

    armanox Kick this Ginger...

    Can be lots of differences. Depends on what you're studying. Jodo (Way of the Jo) is a complete style unto itself, whereas Bojutsu (Art of the Bo) is usually taught within another style.
     
  6. Kurai Unkai

    Kurai Unkai Valued Member

    A simplistic answer to your question would be to think of staff weapons like this:
    The shorter a staff becomes, the faster it can be wielded. The longer the staff is, the harder you can hit something with it.

    That being said, however, the techniques and strategies these two weapons use seldom seem to mirror one another. Sure they both work the same way, but there is one significant difference between them that changes everything: Two(ish) feet of range. When you want to get an idea of how that difference in length alters the tactics, imagine fighting against a swordsman. Think of how close you'd have to be to hit him using a Jo, or how much safer that same technique would be if you were using a Bo. That part is fairly obvious, though, so I won't bore you with the "can he reach you?" scenarios. Instead I'd like to point out the advantages and disadvantages that go into shaping the tactics that these two weapons use.

    (Please also keep in mind that this is based on personal experience and observations, and not everyone will agree with the conclusions I have come to. Many different arts use one or both of these weapons, and everyone will have their own philosophies when it comes to wielding them.)

    When gripped near the center of the weapon, the first thing you will notice when using a Jo is that you won't be able to strike from beyond the swordsman's range. The second thing you will notice is that you cannot hit tremendously hard with it. Any amount of armor will nullify all but the most precisely aimed strikes, though two-handed thrusts will still have a lot of power to them. Take a soft approach, though, and you'll start to see why this weapon is so popular with practitioners of Aikido. At four(ish) feet long, this weapon is not at all clumsy to grapple with. It becomes a lever to immobilize, redirect, or throw an opponent instead of simply beating them silly. Once the opponent is on the ground and locked up in your staff, you can give him the option of a peaceful resolution to your encounter if you are so inclined. Otherwise...well, levers and bones don't play well together...

    When facing a swordsman, though, the Jo is usually held at one end of the staff with a grip that looks and feels remarkably like the grip the swordsman is using. In this position, in fact, the Jo is used as though it were indeed a sword. All of the parries, clashes, and footwork you learned studying swordsmanship will apply here. The difference is that your sword is a little longer, a little lighter, a little more maneuverable, and maybe even a little faster. It is nowhere near as lethal, though, and that's the catch. True, he will definitely feel those strikes and you stand a much better chance of affecting him through his armor, but your available targets are far fewer and the first hit (or two) will quite likely not end the fight. This is not to say that the first strike may not 'win' the fight...but you'll very likely be at this for longer than you would with a sword.

    There is one last factor you'll need to keep in mind, though I wouldn't say it is either an advantage or a disadvantage... Because you are wielding it as though it were a sword, the swordsman will very likely be familiar with the techniques you employ. You're playing his game, but if you think far enough ahead you can use that to your advantage. What you'll need to watch out for, though, are sacrificing techniques. It won't take him long to figure out that trading blows could work in his favor. Even if he's not wearing armor, against staff weapons there is a tactic sometimes called "the armored entrance." He'll charge you down, only protecting the targets he absolutely does not want to take a hit to, and be in your face at knife range. He will get hit, but he's planning on it. He gets a cracked rib, and you get a sword in the throat. Unless, of course, you were baiting him into that charge...

    The Bo's game is different. When it is gripped in the center, both ends of the staff are used to overwhelm the swordsman's defenses. I've seen it held with the lead hand palm-up and the rear hand palm-down, and also with both hands palm-down (the thumbs facing each other). You're still in the swordsman's range here, but only barely. The difference, however, is that the two ends of the staff can both be used for some fairly powerful strikes. Offense and defense get merged here into a barrage of strikes from many different angles: One after another after another after another.... The goal here is to simply overwhelm him so he can do nothing but continue defending himself until he makes a mistake. And even then you don't stop striking. This is of course oversimplifying the tactic, but I think you get the idea.

    When fighting long (wielding the staff from one end or the other), range is the biggest advantage. The attacks are somewhat more predictable, so you'll have to work at getting the swordsman to be where you want him to be. However, they are also more powerful. A good hit to the ankles or head from this range stands a much better chance of ending this fight than in any of the other scenarios. He will keep his distance, though, so many of your tactics here will involve showing him the opening he is looking for to bait him into your range. Some people will present the staff in front of them almost as though it were a spear, while others (myself included) like to keep the weapon to the rear.

    Now, obviously your hands are not nailed to the staff. The Bo can go from short range to long range and back again seamlessly, often in mid-technique. One of my bojutsu instructor's favorite tricks it to fight me at mid-range until I am committed to an attack, and then step out of range while striking me with a long technique. This is not as common with a Jo, though, because the difference in the ranges of the two grips is not as significant. Sometimes you'll see a mid-grip on a Jo go to long during a thrust to get more push behind it, but generally when you see the grip switch on a Jo it is because they are changing tactics, unlike the Bo which uses the switch as part of its tactics.

    I hope that begins to answer your question. There is certainly much more to it than what I have outlined, but I think it illustrates that they are not used interchangeably.

    Thank you for your time.

    Kurai Unkai
     
  7. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    Very nice post Kurai Unkai, with the classic line:

    :D

    The Bo (or since I'm learning a Korean art - the Jang Bong ;) ) is the first weapon we learn, so I can readily relate to the 2-handedness you refer to. You sound like an interesting person to wave big sticks with. :)
     
  8. MingTheMerciles

    MingTheMerciles Valued Member

    so jo staff technique can be applied on bo staff ?
     
  9. Ur Anaite

    Ur Anaite tabi cos only 2 toes

    I just wanted to make sure this was a typo and not a POV, because if it is I dont understand it. I imagine you meant the Jo is lighter etc...


    The techniques and the way of handling the two weapons is different. So the Jo technique applied to a Bo would probably get you killed. If you want to understand for yourself, simply buy a Bo. A nice cheap piece of dowell will do the trick if you only want to experiemnt. The difference will speak for itself.
     
  10. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    At one end of the scale, they're both sticks so some things are directly transferrable (sp?) at the other end they are different lengths, so other techniques can't switch.

    I tend to see how the techniques work with such weapons as broom, garden rake, and the deadly soggy mop :D

    I spotted that, but then realised that earlier in the sentence he said the Jo is used as though it were indeed a sword. Hence his use of the phrase 'your sword' (although quotes round the word sword would have removed all confusion) ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  11. Kurai Unkai

    Kurai Unkai Valued Member

    Yes...What he said. :)
     
  12. hl1978

    hl1978 Valued Member

    Fairly simple

    When used by grabbing at one end, the bo can be used a lot like a spear.

    jo techniques can be used a lot more like a sword.

    We have a jodo group that is part of the same umbrella organization as the kendo group I belong too, I really should check them out.
     
  13. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    The jo is more versatile as it cun strike like a sword thrust and lock like a spear and sweep like a naginata.It can also make figure eight attacks which are most difficult using a bo. As for the relative power the power of the jo is enough to disable or knock out an attacker (I hesitate to say kill).

    regards koyo
     

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