How do I train differently than you then? JKD People were a long way off doing this first what ever this is - please explain? So sparring in your club is a sport as you have rules to that for governing safty? JKD is MMA - noy sure I agree there? Its fighting with weapons - no its a martial art like any other, some good some bad Its a way of life - groovy word bending that people can't really proove, very few actually reach the way of life for real, lots say it. JKD has more than MMA - Yes as it seems there is no quality control in the art so if you came from a karate background it will have Karate, if you came from a Silat background it will have this as well. Moore is no guarentee of quality Your turn.
You train moves and technqiues that will be used in sport competition, we train for moves that we will use in fighting. You learn to wrestle into submission, we learn to elbow the guy into submittion.
Personally I aree with knight and tel. MMA trains awesome fighters but it still trains to a set of rules. JKD teaches you all of the dirty tricks that would be illegal in MMA, it covers different aspects and situations that you would not find in MMA. Most MMA'ers train with specifics in mind... they want the best striking art for the ring. The best grappling art for the ring. That is why in MMA you tend to have less variance in styles and techniques between diferent fighters, because they all train the same game more or less. With JKD, while I agree there are bogus chools/teachers as with any art, the quality practitioners (after all we are talking about quality stuff here, let the bogus MA'ists do what they like, they aren't relevant to this discussion) will experience as many arts as they can and take what is best for them to supplement their other abilities, they are not training to a specific 'game' or set of rules where only a couple/few arts are required for "winning". They are theoretically training for life and death situations using techniques that MMA doesn't use and won't train for. No-ones arguing the fact that MMA produces amazing fighters who would give almost any martial artist a run for their money... but you must see the differences. That's just my opinion as I see it, i'm no expert. EDIT - Regarding the original question, my opinion is that JKD could of course be used for MMA, but there's no guarantee it would do any better than anyone else, probably worse actually seeing as the average JKD practitioner would not have based his entire training specifically for the ring and it's rules whereas an MMA fighter would.
Your watching the wrong MMA dude, we Ground N Pound them into submission, we Pound them when standing up. Don't see the difference apart from the delivery systems and training methods which I would assume a good TMA club to be up there with an Avarage MMA club.
Lots of points here of interest. 1 - what are the things that are different, am I gonna get the we pull hair, groin shots, bend fingers back etc. Weapons is not an arguement as if pushed anyone will pick up a knife. What is the things you use that are so different as most things are ok in MMA comps and early UFC MMA events there were almost no rules and just about every move was ok and most classical TMA people still sucked. Don't take this the wrong way but I would be interested to know if the JKD winning moves are the same as the other TMA excusses or if there any different? 2 - The best striking art for the ring is really just the best striking art, there are no better ones than Boxing, MT, Savate etc and there are no better grappling arts than Judo, BJJ, Sombo, Wrestling these are pretty much set in stone, wanting the best is good as they train to win not to win under a set of rules but just to win. The reason why there are less variance in moves is there tried and tested and leave minimal room for error, doing the 720 deg kicks did not work so they were dropped by all apart from the insane. 3 - MMA trains again to win, they eye gouge jobs are easy to do and you can only train them for theory, I know them well. The life and death situations will only happen to less than 0.01% of us JKD would be more use to most students in the drunk out side club realm again where MMA cuts to the chase on its delivery and technical systems 4 - I do see the difference with weaponry and awareness issues and multi opponents but you can fight the people with a good TMA or MMA your still in trouble if they seriously wanna stomp you, so many clubs I have seen talk about multiple opponent work and the instuctor when asked have you used your training say no. Its all theory for many instructors.
Problem is mate this is such a difficult argument (well, debate should I say as it's all friendly) to have... the differences between MMA and JKD are there... they're just quite subtle. JKD mixes in the Filipino arts for a start, something which will always give a practitioner a different flavour to the average MMA'er. It covers stick/knife fighting techniques/disarms and all of the weapon attacks translate to empty-hand. Add the joint-locks/shaps/destructions and you have a different system of fighting and set of techniques to fall back on which is proven as damn effective on the street and considered damn "dirty", hence why it is a staple diet of every JKD curriculum worth it's salt. Original UFC matches were "anything goes" I agree, but they're not any more seeing as people got too injured, so nowadays MMA clubs don't train new fighters for that kinda thing, though the "old-timers" will still know it well. They banned the eye-gouges, headbutts, groin strikes, throat strikes etc because it attratcted attention from political figures who campaigned to get the damn thing banned, so in order to gain it acceptability they strived to make it into more of a "sport", hence the introduction of rounds and the general "cleaning up" of the thing. Where it was once banned from TV in the majority of states it is now sanctioned in around four I think and you can now get it on pay-per-view TV, Hell, Dan Severn rightly once said that he wasn't comfortable with the total lack of rules and wasn't comfortable with throat shots being allowed, as he wouldn't like to do that to another human being, and rightly so. No-one wants an octagon riddled with severely injured people, that isn't fun to watch, and the increased rules eman that UFC is now more a test of skill than letting a fight be won by a lucky groin shot, headbutt or gouge. It doesn't mean UFC is weak, just that it's safer and appeals to a wider audience. Why am I babbling all that? OK just to summarise what i'm trying to get accross, it's that MMA'ers train to those rules, whereas JKD'ers don't, they train to do max damage in any way possible, something you would not get away with in UFC. The average UFC fight won't be between two people who want to break each others neck, it will be between two great athletes who ok may not be the best of friends, but they respect each other and aren't looking to do some serious, lasting damage through any means possible. Training from a purely self-defence P.O.V. will always have differences to training from a ring competition P.O.V. With the techniques that JKD and MMA share, of course the training and delivery is no different in terms of quality or effectiveness, it's the stuff they don't share and the scenarios they train for that seperate them. Am I making sense? I tried to explain that as best I could. Regards, Rich.
Here is a really good article worth reading about what happened to UFC in the earluier transitional stages http://slate.msn.com/id/46344/
Nice link Rich. Perhaps that article highlights the fact (especially along with the statistics), that the UFC is on its way out and is just a fad.
1) JkD isnt a TMA 2) No they are not the best striking arts, they are some of the best striking arts. Funny thing is, JKD uses all of these and more. 3) They train to win in sport, not in a fight. Sport fighting and Street fighting aint even the same ball game, hell it aint even they same sport. Pardon the pun. JKD=MMA, except the focus is SD, and yours is winning in a sporting match.
JKD and MMA are different; they do train for different scenarios; but to think that a JKD pracitioner would always stand a better chance in a street fight than a mixed martial artist simply because he trains for the street, and the mixed martial artists trains for the ring is silly. I think some of you should take alook at some of Straight Blast gym's articles; especially Matt Thornton's stuff! A truely excellent JKD practioner http://www.straightblastgym.com/street.htm
Straight blast gym is great. Too bad they dont have one here in Aus, or I wouldnt be walking to it, I would be running.
One day I was training with NHB fighter (I will not say his name)......We are friends......He trains for the ring......I train for life and death.......So he want to go at it with me, for real.......I said only if I can be me and he said he would take it easy on me since I don't fight in the ring always......I said is that so.......He went to shoot my legs and got a knee and elbow to the face, I didn't go all the way on him though.......then he try to box and soon find out that was my home.......then he did get me on the ground, which should be his home.....this is where all the **** brook out......he was getting ****ed now because he couldn't hurt me or lock me.....at this point I knew I was in his head (angry).....this is went he got pinched between his 7 & 8 rib.....as soon as I got the react I wanted from this, now I had the open space to elbow the same spot......at he rolled off me on he side and said I can't do that........I say said I just did, What do you mean?......We are still friends and he is still training with me (private)..... The point I would like to make is there is sport martial arts and there is street martial arts......one is no better than the other.....its just what you want out of it......people in the world train in the arts for different reasons, some to meet people, some to get in shape, some to win belts or trophies, some because of movies, some because their friend do it, some because they have been abuse before.....So the point is one reason isn't better than the other.....believe what you believe and keep training hard.....because your path will cross one day with the other forms of training......keep a open mind, because after all we all learn from each other......reguardless if we think we do or not......there will always be in life someone better than you and not as good......So lets take life's lesson and learn from it......to live in the present....." Today Is The Tomorrow, That You Thought Of Yesterday"....... Good training to all......Peace-Out! (This is just my view of course!) Take It Easy, John
??????????????????? It is gaining popularity and more clubs are spirining up, just not at the speed of TMA clubs but that is a good thing. It is on the up not decline, no way.
Lots of valid points but the main thing is you need a system that delivers, the advent of MMA forced critique on many systems as it emerged they did not deliver and other arts that were often portayed as poor and sporting gained a greated presence and respect in the MA community - Judo, Wrestling etc. The rib pinch I think it a mute point as anyone can do this the same as hair pulling, bites, eye gouges as they require almost no training. These tools did not assist people in the early MMA events and I think many TMA people only have these type techniques as the last bastion for what they do still has a valid place in the Martial Arts community. Not saying this is you by the way but it seems to be the stock defence for many TMA people when in reality a if I punch you in the head a few times you will go down tends to be a more credible statment in my view.
Exactly....Simplicity in it's finest......But Sonshu.....Don't forget about.....dislocation of joints.....broken knee cap or legs.......broken fingers and hand or arms....and the neck snap.....See this is were I'm coming.....True personal art is one's self expression.....in a life and death situation their are no rules....If I have to survive a real fight because my life is on the line......I'm going to use anything and everything, but the simplist things work the best.....I started in TMA back in 1969 in Detroit, MI.....by all means I stop being TMA in the early 80's, because it did work all the time in the streets.....matter of fact I don't even run my school like the TMA anywhere.....after all these years of training, I don't teach my student to be or move like me........I teach them to find the root of their own ignorance......TMA to me means following the teacher because he said so.....JKD on the other hand is alive, it is everywhere, but nowhere particular......just waiting to fit-in......as far as punches to the head.....I've seen many people brake their hands by hitting someone in the head......now don't get me wrong here.......I to like to punch......like I've said before I've been boxing since I was 10 years old......and I do know old school boxing which is not around to much anymore.......but in life and death situation you have to be smart.....you like to call them tools, but if your tools are broken......your tool box won't help you, now will it........I think you are on your path of self-discovery, because you wouldn't be asking the question that you have in the past......don't be for this or that......be you, if it FEEL's right and like you are doing nothing........that's when you are doing something. Peace-Out John
Outstanding question! It would probably depend mostly on the size, strength, stamina and skill level of the fighter. The difference between JKD and some of the other MA's is that JKD teaches you to "fit in" and do what you have to do to win. This means using "tools" that may be considered dirty or unacceptable in sports MA. In sports MA the goal is to win. In combat MA the goal is to survive. I dont think one MA is better than another. A kick is a kick and a punch is a punch. Groundfighting is groundfighting. All can hurt you!
