JKD in Birmingham, UK

15 years! Thats funny.
Let's put it this way.
A few private lessons over the years does not mount up to 15 YEARS
training experience.
Completing a pre-phase instructor programme at Impact/ Magda Institute
does not make you an Instructor.
Leaving the programme and setting up an association,
then putting Magda/Carnell on your family tree is miss- leading the public,
when you only did pre-phase.
Sunny was what we call a Chapter Affiliate, this is a try out period to see if
you can hack it.
Sunny left without a word,we contacted him and left messages for him,no
replies. We were later shocked to see he had started his own association.
He is not a recognised instructor for Impact/Magda institute and should remove the said names from his web site.

 

im catching this one a bit late, but wanted to say a few things.
first the 5 day seminar was £1000 pounds and you where basically paying for the peice of paper. the time spent with jerry and to see him live was well worth the money without the certificate. as for sunny, he seemed like a nice guy who would not mis lead people, but i only met him for a few days.

if jerry carry's on doing his 5 day courses his rep and that of his instructors will not be held in high regard. therefore as his assoication is only just getting going over here, it leaves his students starting from a negative postion.

this is to simplicity - john please let me know when you over in the uk and where you are going to be. would be good to meet in person

 

Still waiting for a e-mail with your full name....



JM

 

Kung Fu Warrior/ February,

There you have it from Dave Carnel himself regarding the 15 years training, I thought the resume might contain many exaggerations and false information. A few of the other names on it I actually know so will ask them about Sandra's training with them.

As Dave said claiming 15 years with him is false & misleading information, and rather insulting & offensive to Dave himself he trains someone for 15 years & he is still at basic level.

Again why did Sandra feel justified to start up his own Academy after leaving Impact martial arts? Then feel the need to get certified under Jerry Poteet? These are honest questions, but as yet no answers forthcoming from yourselves.

 

Tel,

You are no longer in Jerry's association? What was the course like and what sort of material did it cover? Jerry is meant to be an excellent Instructor , if he wants to charge 1000 for 5 days training with him, then it is up to people if they want to pay that much (I still think it is high prices); but it's Certifying people to teach in that time that I have a problem with as mentioned before in this thread. Someone with little or no experience could get certified in less than a week!

Agree, with you if Jerry comes few times more to UK and produces the same amount or more Instructors each time, there will be a lot of them in UK. Were many of the ones on the course with you very experienced in JKD prior to it? The main guy in UK Peter Grills, what is his level like? As I think he is also head for all Europe.

People are free to study with whomever they want at whatever cost they are willing to pay, but as you put it paying for basically a piece of paper is probably not good for the reputation of JKD in the long term.

You said 1000 for the course for 5 days in UK, Sandra says he also did 70 hours with him private that must mean = serious money into thousands to do that, if a public course is that amount private lessons one on one for 70 hours total must have cost a fortune.

Incidentally, Dave Carnell had Jerry Poteet over for seminars years ago to UK , but that was I think before Jery formed his own association and began charging a lot to get certified. Would be interested to hear from Dave how good he felt his seminars were , and if he learnt a lot from him? Most say Jerry is an excellent Instructor, and knows a lot on JKD.

 

Posted by email to me by KickinIT Meeting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know when you are coming to UK, we can meet no problem. You can even go to my classes free or I will give you private lessons free, or you too egotistical to think you could learn anything? Or you just want to talk & excange techniques that's cool also. When we meet will show you certification & photos of who I have trained with, you want to verify anything then you can call again free on my phone any of them , I have contact details for them all.

Will meet you no problem, what part of UK are you planning on coming to? Drop me an email before you are coming. Don't clutter up the boards with this all the time, as i said will meet you, so email me when you know you are coming.

Take care.





but still no full name by him, you are nothing more than a troll "KICKINIT"....


JM

 

I trained on Jerry Poteets Seminars back in 1990, I .had a great time and got on well with Jerry. Not long after that Jerry sent me a signed copy of Inside Kung Fu with Dan Lee and himself on the cover. He also invited me to represent him in the uk. This was around the time I became rep'for the Magda Institute in the uk.
At the time I really liked Jerry's break down of the trapping and sensitivity drills.I later spent a day at his home training and interviewing him for MAI.

 

To Diamond Dave – please see below a response from my Sifu, Sunny.

Sifu,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

1)Concerning the Carnell/Magda Lineage on the website, this had been removed one month prior, however due to a family concern the website is in mourning. The lineage will be removed in the next 2 weeks.


2)Concerning our Student/Teacher relationship, how can you say a couple of lessons, are you forgetting Sifu, when we did our training I have over 40 3 hour videos of our sessions, plus I have around 250 photographs from our workshops from the Wing Chun/Kali days as well as Instructor Training videos. So how can you lie and say a couple of lessons here and there Sifu? LOL (Never mind)


3)With regards to me being a “weak link” can you remember when you taught me Silat, the forms 1 to 12 in Silat Serak and 1 to 13 in Bukti Negara, do you always teach weak links to this stage? (but I was never into Silat anyway, I was always more into Jun Fan JKD)


4)As I am no longer connected to Impact Martial Arts Academy, the Certificate you gave me means nothing to me, it's simply a piece of paper (as Bruce Lee said “Black Belts are for holding your pants up”). What's more important than a piece of paper is Human Beings, the highest form is Knowledge, no-one can take that from you, like they can a piece of paper.


Sifu please, no hard feelings, I have respect for you and always will in my heart. If only you'd sent me an email or phoned me about this rather than do it in this way. It looks bad for you to do this in such a way – you are the Master and I am the Student, or was the Student.

Sifu Sardara Singh Khalsa

 

Diamond Dave ,

Interesting to hear about your experiences with Jerry Potteet, everyone says he is a very good Instructor and you can learn a lot from him. How about a book or article for magazines with your experiences with all these people - William Cheung, Jerry Poteet, Dan Inosanto, etc? As many don't get the chance to go to seminars with them especially in UK, most of them aren't here that much some not in many years.

It is very sad Sandra makes these claims and tries to disagree with someone as knowledgable as yourself, one of the most respected & leading people in JKD in the UK.

 

February,

My teacher says this or that, why can't he post himself? Someone disagrees with him in person does he throw you forward his students and run off to hide?

To disagree and try dispute what one of the leading authorities on JKD in the UK is saying is very sad indeed, other than students of Sandra's like yourself everyone will agree and believe what Dave says.

Sandra says Dave could have contacted him in above message, remember in the past Dave and others tried numerous times when Sandra abrutly left their group; Sandra never responded once.

The certificate from Dave Impact means nothing to him? Bit insulting but in anycase why have the lineage from Dave/Cass Magda on his website if it means so little? Does Sandra's certificate from Jerry also mean nothing as he likes to term it?

'It looks bad for you to do it in such a way' to Dave - LOL! Actually, Dave has done nothing wrong whatsoever , Sandra is the one looking bad - sending his students to respond / making false claims about his training background/ paying a lot of money to get certified/ starting his own Academy after leaving Impact with no authority or certification from anyone / leaving Impact suddenly & never responding once to attempts to contact him nor ever contacting Impact again, etc.

Anyway, how much was all the training with Jerry Poteet - buying a Instructors certificate for £1000 + 70 hours one on one private, it must have cost around several thousand?

Tel said Sandra seemed like a nice guy , I don't doubt it and I'm sure he is sincere in wanting to learn JKD. He is welcome to meet with me also if he is ever in Oxford, not sure if I will be in Birmingham at all if I am can get in touch.

 

(kickinit) Let me put it this way...

Sifu Jerry Poteet charges £1000 for the instructors course...

Master Dan Inosanto charges £7000 for the instructors course...

What does Sifu Cass Magda charge when he comes over twice a year???

And there are some JKD Instructors who charge £700 for an Instructors Workshop...hmmm

We have not once said anything to insult or disrespect Sifu Dave Carnell, as you put it! thats just lies...

Sifu Sardara Singh talks of, and has allways talked very highly about Sifu Dave Carnell! He has never, not once had anything bad to say about him or his teaching! After all he was his Master...

When we have our workshops with Sifu Sardara Singh, we can see just how high his standard is! And we always think highly of Sifu Dave Carnell for being such a big part of this...however, from the things being said, and how they have been said, i think our respect and regard for Sifu Dave Carnell is lost!!!

Now Regarding the stuff you said about Sifu Sardara Singh going to Sifu Tommy Carruthers for certification...PURE LIES!!!

Sifu Sardara Singh did go to see Sifu Tommy Carruthers! Because like on this forum and on this thread you (kickinit) have started...Tommy had a lot of criticism against him, about the way he teaches and his knowledge!

However unlike you (kickinit), Sifu Sardara Singh didnt want to just listen and read into all of the rubbish being said! So instead of believing all of the hearsay and chinese wispers, Sifu Sardara Singh simply went directly to the source and went up to see Sifu Tommy Carruthers, and he was very impressed with his abillity!!!


P.S. Sifu John McNabney is totally correct, you (kickinit) are a troll and your childish arguing is worthless, as you are gaining nothing out of it, accept for stripping yourself of any so called respect or dignity you have left!!! :cry:

 

KickingIt

With all due repsect (although it's very difficult to level anything close to respect in your direction).

Sifu Sardara's post was directed towards Diamond Dave (and I posted in the temporary absence of an Internet connection at my Sifu's house) not yourself, please refrain from butting in. We've had enough of your 2 cents to make a million $! As my associate Kung Fu Warrior has said, our Sifu has always had the utmost regard for Sifu Dave and has always instilled in us the same regard for him.

from what I can gather on this and other threads, you've got some pretty serious issues, it's a shame that Sifu Dave aligns himself with anyone such as yourself and if you really do teach JKD, I feel very sorry for your students.

Let's put it another way - you don't seem like a very nice person....anyways, I think we have a pretty good idea of who you are "Kenny" and what your agenda is....(p.s. you're quite the challenge-machine aren't you? keep throwing em out like that and you'll be fighting the whole world pal). :woo:

Thanks Kung Fu Warrior for the post.

 

Yeah he posted a challenge to me in a similar manner. What a joke. I suspect his mom took away his keyboard so that's why he's not been back on. Lots of talk... but nothing else. Total troll.

 

Kung Fu Warrior / February,

You are the ones that made incredibly lame excuses regarding the poor videos of Sandra. You are the ones that fired off numerous very childish insults, then backtracked claiming you were being ironic. Then you start calling people trolls because you & your Sifu are being made to look very foolish indeed.

You are both gullible and naive granted but did you never stop to think just for a second that even though you like Sandra & think he is a good teacher; his claims about his training background might be exaggerated? Here we have right here Dave Carnell saying he never trained with him extensively for 15 years & again you believe Sandra, okay respect to your Sifu & all but that is just being very silly indeed.

He did not study with Dave Carnell 15 years , not only Dave but others in his team will verify that. He studied with him 15 years and only towards the very end of that time period gets on the basic Instructors programme can't handle it , quits and founds his own Academy? Must be slow learner to only be starting on basic programme after 15 years, some in the Inosanto lineage have become Full Instructors in that time.

Dan Inosanto charges £7000 for the Instructors Course? Not sure if this is true, to my knowledge it is false but I'm really not sure. Anyone else know here? But you see there is a huge difference even if he did charge that his course it is NOT a you pay - you pass type course, Jerry Poteet's is. It takes many years some 10-20 years to become Full Instructor under him no matter what your skill level or how fast you learn, so you cannot pay & become a Full Instructor right away. That is a huge difference. Tell me one Full Instructor under Inosanto that is not good or highly knowledgable in the entire world? Even his Instructors on lower levels than full are all high standard; Dan makes them wait years till they can proceed to next level!

Jerry Poteet you pay £1000 you are guaranteed an Instructors certificate, whatever your skill level or how fast you learn. Jerry has around 5 levels, same price each you can do them all quite fast no waiting years to do them, all are you pay - you pass type.

What Cass Magda charges? Who cares? Of course they charge they make a living from it & he has to come from USA. Again big difference, he does seminars but does not certify people in under a week , especially those he has only just met. Vast difference between doing courses and selling certificates to anyone that comes along.

Again you failed to answer how much money has Sandra paid Jerry for lessons and certificates already? He did Instructors course for £1000 , has he done more levels since at £1000 each? Then 70 hours private lessons with Jerry he charges around $2000 for 20 hours I've heard so thats around $7000! Serious money. If wrong on the figures feel free to correct.

*** Sandra did not study with Dave Carnell for 15 years , Dave himself has confirmed this.
*** He did not study with James Sinclair in Wing Chun for 3 years either, know people that train with him and asked him.
*** He did in fact go to Tommy Carruthers for certification, anyone can ask Tommy just email him or phone him if you have number, so it is not at all lies as claimed above. Tommy has said Sandra wanted Tommy to certify him to teach.

My advice to yourseves & Sandra, stop posting, let this thread die , others will stop posting on it also, it will be forgotten about unless someone looks in search for JKD Birmingham, because you are deeply embarrassing yourselves! Dave Carnell himself points out factual errors in statements made and you have the audacity to say he is wrong? Videoclips posted on Youtube are poor and you make very feeble excuses about them, others commented they were poor also here; you fire out childish insults when pointed out you then backtrack saying you wre being ironic.

Again let the thread die don't post again you will only embarrass yourselves even further than you have already, if that is indeed possible. Never met Sandra yet , sure he is nice guy others like Tel have said he is, you both obviously feel he is , nobody is disputing or doubting that, lets be clear on that at least; nobody is doubting either he is sincere in wanting to learn JKD. Cannot email you guys , so email me tell me if Sandra is ever in Oxford we can hook up and talk and train, you are welcome to both come too, know cheap hotels if you want to stay in or around Oxford for few days too. . I've got zero agenda as you put it, this is a discussion forum people will have differing viewpoints.

Seriously, let this thread die its for the best. You don't respond again either of you, I'll never post on it again nor will anyone else I suspect, or if they do it will still die soon.

On positive note , this thread has outlined different ways to certification and learning, people are entirely free to go any route they want and study with whomever they want. Lets leave it at that.

 

Diamond Dave

Final Say from Sifu Sardara:

Sifu Dave, when you split from Master Samuel Kwok (1987?) and formed D.C. Wing Chun/Kali Academy, whose permission did you have LOL?

You knew Cass since '86 and didn't become an instructor until '93?

Perhaps we should ask Master Kwok or Master Kevin Frost?

No hard feelings and with all respect - Sifu Sunny

_________________________________________________________________

and from myself (Februaury) to KickingIt

the way you treat people is a disgrace....

KickingIt "Kenny" or should we say ------?

you're starting to sound like a broken record mate, anyone can see what your "agenda" is....mr transparent LOL.

Keep your opinions to yourself - none of what Sifu said was originally directed at you, it's pretty obvious what you're all about (from knowing apparently nothing about Sifu Sunny to knowing his life story and demanding answers?), You're a sad little man, get some self respect, some dignity, or else get lost

"Kenny from Oxford" indeed - LOL

I sincerely hope Sifu Dave didn't elect you as a mouthpiece.

 

Feb/Sunny,
I met Sifu Cass in 1984.I started my apprentiship in 1985, allowed to work with a small group of guy's.
became uk rep'for Sifu Cass in 1990.Thats why we called it Impact Martial Arts Academy back then.
Did not use the name Jeet Kune Do until then,I was kept under the watchful eye of Sifu Cass until he was clear I was the right man for the job (that was 6 years) and I have been with him ever since.

Kevin Frost was my great friend and training partner for many years until he re married and moved away, he retired from teaching martial arts soon after. He was a really good Wing Chun man and I still miss our training workouts together.

 

And for the record I really don't know who KickinIt is!

 

This is the only warning all of you get. No more profanity. Okay? No more posting contact information. Okay?

Chill out and discuss it like the adults you are supposed to be. If you can't, step back form the keyboard for a day or 2. Have a beer, hang out with some friends.

If you want to meet, arrange it by PM or email. But, I would warn against meeting to solve issues by physical conflict. All sorts of legal issues there.... meet for a beer or tea or something and talk it over.

You may find you have more in common.

Or not.

But, here on MAP, you will behave or you will get Banned.

 

no. i am no longer have anything to do with jerry poteet.
i think this is down to training with guro inosanto, but maybe its because i didn't give him money for students to join his assocation,they do not get anything for paying the x amount each year. he never told me why infact i only found out cos someone told me. but really was a weight of my shoulders.
i really enjoyed the time i spent with him, i want to make that clear.
i not gonna comment on pete grills skill level. doesn't make a differance either way. i know sunny is a level 2 now under jerry. i personally think dan is the best jun fan jkd man alive. jerry is good at what he does.
we covered boxing and wing chun,

this is too the kung fu warrior. im sorry but your wrong. dan inosanto does not charge 7000 pounds for an instructorship. that is totally rubbish. you have to be recommended by one of his instructors.

 

Tel,

I didn't think Dan charged £7000 , coming from those people I was even more sceptical. Dan knows an awful lot on JKD that is for sure, Jerry Poteet knows a lot too but as Dan has told people he taught him an awful lot and Jerry's actual training time with Bruce Lee wasn't that long, but he still knows his stuff that is never in doubt. I think many owe more to Dan Inosanto that they let on, but they don't always say for different reasons. To get full certified under Dan as I'm sure you know takes many years, for his UK Instructors like Bob Breen, Rick Young, etc it was 15 years+. With Dan Inosanto also whatever your skill level he makes you wait, so you really know the material.

Have you been to Dan's place in U.S. to train, or just at seminars in UK? What was the training like at his place, I've heard it is meant to be an amazing experience and he has separate classes in Jun Fan , etc. What strikes you most about Dan despite his talent is his humility, he kept JKD alive all these years and people often forget that and criticise him. Also in the period Dan trained with Bruce Lee, he knows exactly who trained with him and for how long he still has attendance records from classes, but he restrains himself from saying anything.

At 70 years old his is still learning, and got into Kettlebell training recently - AMAZING! and respect!