Jiu Jitsu in street situation-or-Krazy Horse put to sleep

While this vid is already undergoing a HUGE number of hits and investigations from fans everywhere, I viewed it differently. Dispute aside on who started with who, I simply found it beautiful to see practical martial arts being applied in an unsanctioned, unplanned, relatively street fighting situation (against a thug-type dude, at that).

Sure there'll be the ton of other excuses, such as "there weren't any concrete chunks, glass shards, drug needles, lava, grenade bits on the terrain". But, just figured that I'd share it with you guys.

Discuss.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87KLIRbKaVQ"]INÉDITO: CRAZY HORSE APAGADO POR CRISTIANO MARCELLO - YouTube[/ame]

 

Couple of questions:

1. Any translation for the text? I assume it was in Spanish or Portugese.
2. Were those guys two MMA fighters?

Anyway yes I agree it was a nice utilisation of the technique and it certainly did the job under a pressured situation.

I personally don't buy into the pools of lava, drug needles situation as an excuse not for being on your back, but its still the last place I would want to be because of the "other guys" factor (I think someone may well will be more willing to get involved). However what this shows (albeit in an anecdotal way, like all video tapes) that there are situations where both guys have people with them, who are happy to let the "street fight" progress without interference. This could be because they are fearful, or that they think their guy can handle it, or that they are friends with both and are fine with it.

However this video does not happen on a concrete ground and although the guy was able to limit the slam, it still would have hurt more on tarmac (although I do wonder about how many people have the ability/strength the slam someone from the guard). It also seems that no one seems drunk or to have taken alcohol (this is an assumption) so it does not explore that side of realistic confrontation.

Actually dispite all this blabbing the video dosen't really tell us much. Its basically like watching you average MMA match with only a few obstacles and no one's wearing gloves (the BJJ guy buddies even told him when the aggressor was choked out). The triangle choke is shown to be effective (we knew that) and someone applied it from a situation that was not a pre planned, done deal fight (which I imagined could be done anyway).

 

Well, I can partly answer #2: I know Charles "Krazyhorse" Bennett is an MMA fighter. Sort of. Except that he apparently doesn't train. And he gets beaten a lot. And is really more of a clown than a fighter. But strictly speaking, yes, he's had some MMA matches.

To address your other points, it was concrete. That's an arena. I couldn't tell if the floor was covered in carpet or not (probably) but underneath it's still concrete. One of the reasons it wasn't much of a factor is that the other guy was able to post a bit and soften the impact. So if it were in the parking lot, his response would still have saved him from too much damage.

As for alchohol being involved, well, Krazyhorse would probably have gotten choked out quicker if he'd been drinking.

 

Good catch, dude.
Pretty much covered all the angle 'fore I was able to. lol

 

Nice technique but the video is edited. One point the black guy is on top of the white guy, then the camera moves down and suddenly the white guy has the black guy in a leg choke... there is footage missing...

Second, nobody else joined in on the action. This is not the the worst case scenario, if the black guy had even one friend hammering the white guy while he was on his back things would have gone differently.

Third, that "fight" took ages. Not including some missing footage i'd say the whole thing took about 2 minutes. 2 minutes in a situation like that could mean another opponent picking up a weapon, the black guy pulling out a knife etc.

Fourth, the white guy took a few blows the the head. For a fighter getting smashed is part of the game, for a normal person it's not. Most untrained people will not be able to take 3-4 good hits to the head.

Overall, footage is edited and doesn't really change my mind about grappling on the ground. Yes it has applications but in a self defense situation the last place you want to be is getting hammered on your back. This footage is two trained, fit and muscled fighters having a bit of a bash.

 

Anyone with common sense would have used the chairs as a weapon or what ever was at hand.

 

Haha...it blows my mind that people can see someone choked to the point where they are flat out dribbling unconscious on the floor, at the mercy of all and sundry and they STILL criticise the grappler.

The dude was out cold. If you think the white guy was vulnerable to knives and stuff while on his back then what was the black guy doing when he was asleep? Lulling them into a false sense of security? He seemed a damn sight more vulnerable to me. A sitting duck almost.

What this does for me is confirm that when you need to be able to fight on the ground you REALLY need to be able to fight on the ground.

 

I’m not criticising the grappler he does a better job than I would have, I’m just stating I would have used a chair first to hit with.

 

It was more aimed at the previous dude man.

 

no problem

 

This thread is tantamount to beating a crazy, dead horse (yuk yuk yuk yuk). You know how I usually have something moderately humorous to say then I go on with some important stuff?

NOT THIS TIMEEE!!!

 

That the video is edited is a fair point, but he didn't just "suddenly" have him in a triangle choke. He'd hit that move earlier, but Krazyhorse ("black guy", for the uninitiated) escaped. And I don't really think we're missing anything.

Actually, Krazyhorse was quite lucky nobody else joined in. He was in hostile territory, in the Chute Boxe locker room. If any "friends" had joined in, he would have gotten beaten 'til he was unrecognizible. The big bald guy standing over them? This guy, the former Pride FC Champion, and a guy who went undefeated in twenty-odd fights:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAVH5MBg8Qo"]Wanderlei Silva ,The Champ HL - YouTube[/ame]

Krazyhorse either had plenty more balls or far less sense than I have, 'cause I wouldn't mess with one of Wanderlei's boys if he was in the same time zone, much less the same room.

We can speculate all day about what might have happened. Maybe the Krazyhorse would have pulled a knife. Maybe the Chute Boxe guy would have. Maybe a dragon would have swooped down and consumed them both. Anything is possible in the realm of speculation. But if we instead forcus on what actually happened, there's really no argument. One-on-one, no weapons, a gratuitous assault... a guy survived on apparently nothing more than BJJ training, and emerged victorious.

Incidentally, not all fights involve weapons or multiple opponents. I would venture to say that the majority do not. This scenario could just as well have played out at a neighbor's house where guys were arguing over which football game to watch. If you need further proof that not all situations require deadly-force actions, here's a few fights caught on tape:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMIuG3HvV0Y&feature=related"]YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOxZNF1EdbE&feature=related"]sick fight - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apK5j-wCSNQ&feature=related"]old man **** up young man - YouTube[/ame]

I couldn't really tell if any of those shots landed cleanly. Most of the time, Krazyhorse had his back to the camera. At any rate, it looked like he was just throwing arm punches without any real power behind them. And why wouldn't an untrained person be able to take some shots? You see in the videos above that some guys did take some clean shots to the head. Sometimes it put 'em out, sometimes it made them angry. And... we're talking about the benifit of BJJ in a fight, so our theoretical person isn't "untrained" anyway.

Sure it's the last place you want to be, but it's not like the Chute Boxe guy had much of a choice. Krazyhorse's first action was to tackle him. And I still don't understand why you're highlighting the physical conditioning of the athletes. Which, by the way, is a bit mistaken. Krazyhorse is notorious for not training. But anyway, wouldn't a martial artists have a physical edge over a sedentary attacker anyway? And of course he's "trained", that's the point of this thread. Training to fight on the ground can keep you from getting seriously hurt.

 

I have NO idea why hypothetical situations of "chairs, bottles, gang stomping, etc." were even brought up.

Is it me, or is it when everytime a street based scenario is shown proving certain martial arts' credibility, we get all these, "Well I woulda'...well he coulda'....well there weren't any grenades/missiles/drug needles/gravel shards"?

The point was in showing that yes, submission grappling has been proven and continues to be proven in street based scenarios. I purposely left out the names because they would've left the naysayers looking even sillier.

 

Everyone knows chokes and locks are very effective.

The argument is, what do you need to sacrifice in order to get the choke or lock on.

I made my position clear based on what did happen.

One on one without weapons and intent is not a life threatening situation. (As somebody previously mentioned, friends having a bash aren't looking to kill each other) So yes, grappling on the ground is extremely effective at taking out friends in a friendly bashing match.

Took too long. If you burn 3 minutes of energy what are you going to do afterwards? Ask for a breather before you run like hell... yeah right.

Getting hit. I don't like getting hit and i find that if i'm mobile on my feet or even using something (like a chair) in between me and my opponent the likely hood of getting hit lessens.

In summary, takes too long and is too close for comfort.

(That being said, i believe grappling on the ground would be really useful for subduing drunk friends and out of control middle schoolers )

 

I don't know why it wasn't made abundantly clear from the video, but just for the record... they're not friends.

 

Because Mr. Bennett is totally an impressive opponent to defeat. If I were to RNC a nine year old who bit me, would that mean my technique is above question, or that it's now fact that grappling defeats biting?

 

Well this thread has progressed as expected.

Regardless of everyones thoughts on whether attempting a submission-only mindset is a good idea as the Chute-Boxe guy did there, does anyone feel that if there WAS multiple chair/knife/gun wielding attackers, that they'd fair any better, or have any better ideas were they in that guys position?

 

Ok it wasnt in this case.

But what happens if the white guy didnt know any ground game at all and the black guy had got him down, as he did in the video, and was raining blows down on his head then?

The outcome would've been different obviously, would the situation have got life threatening? Who knows. Could it have become a life threatening situation? Yes, the guy was smacking him while he was down. What if he didnt stop when the guy went limp and carried on beatening him, remember there was no bell too stop him p). Any fight can esculate easily, it didnt but this was due to the other guys ability to handle himself in a weakened position

 

Because Mr. Bennett is totally an impressive opponent to defeat.

I think that was meant as sarcasm. If so it was badly placed.
Charles Bennett is a seasoned street fighter and convicted criminal with KO power and the intent to use it.
Granted that only equates to a modicum of intermittent success in professional MMA but he's by no means a push over.
He would absolutely give EVERYONE in this thread a hard fight whether they ended up beating him or not.
In fact he pretty much represents the kind of attacker we (as males) would end up facing in a real fight. An aggressive head hunter basically.

Nine year old indeed.

(PS...I've just looked at Ratty's profile...he does Bujinkan...he would absolutely kick Crazy Horse's ass. No question.)

 

Let's point out the fact that having the back of your head against the concrete with someone punching you in the face IS a life threatening situation. If you've got your head on the ground like that and someone busts you in the mouth 5 or 6 times, you will end up with a concussion, likely as not. If you get hit right, or enough times, you could suffer some serious brain damage from that.