Japanese armour in 17thC WMA?

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Louie, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Sir Neil O’Neill, (?1658-1690) is shown in the richly ornamented costume of an Irish chieftain. At his feet is a suit of Japanese armour...


    The artist, John Michael Wright, a catholic, was exiled from London to Dublin in 1679, where this work must have been painted.

  2. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Yep, Do-maru gusoku by the looks of it. You can see the sode and sune-ate (shin guard) on the left of the piece. This is very old armour for the 15th Century, since do-maru were used roughly around the 11th & 12th centuries.

    Attached Files:

  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I have read that a large number of do maru were produced much later than the 11th century as gifts and for ceremonies.This may explain it's appearance in the painting.

    Horror story for you. I saw a suit of japanese armour that looked like a do maru. It was difficult to tell as some imbecile had been using it as a scarecrow on his farm!!!!!!!!
  4. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist


    It's only a small image but it's part of the Tokugawa armour from 1610 which belonged to James VI and I and is on display at the Royal armouries Leeds. Presented to him after an Embassy to Japan. Meanwhile in Japan not long after they made Naginata shaped like Halberds, straight Katana patterned after western swords and Hakama bunched at the cuff after the style of trousers worn by European merchants. Of which there are examples or contemporary Illustrations in the Armouries.
  5. The Unholy

    The Unholy Banned Banned

    And a lot more than that. There were armors built on the breastplate that the Spanish conquistadors made famous in Japan. In fact, the Do-maru with its all metal, plain construction is thought to be maybe based on European versions.

    Let us not forget that Oda Nobunaga was one of the warlords closest to the Europeans. It was he that introduced long pikes that are strangely similar to what the Swiss and had guys that carried long swords in front of them like the dopplesoldat the German Landsneckts were doing at the time. Not to mention he made popular the use of volley firing with muskets and the use of permanent castles built of stone came into use about that time.

    Good luck getting a Japanese scholar to admit that maybe, just maybe, the Japanese learned a lot about running a battlefield from the Europeans.
  6. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Just as a historical correction, It would have been more likely Portuguese influence than Spanish. As the were they first European State to Make contact with Japan. Followed by the Dutch and English.

    The Bear.
  7. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    A closer look at King James I's Japanese armour, this one is in the Tower!


    This armour is one of two presented to James I by Tokugawa Hidetada, Shogun of Japan, in 1613 and brought back from Japan by Captain John Saris of the East India Company.


    "This important armour, made by Iwai Yozaemon, was a diplomatic gift from the Shogun. It was one of two presented in 1613 to King James I on the occasion of the signing of trading rights between England and Japan. It has been on display with the Royal Armouries collections since the 1660s".

  8. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    The one I posted a small pic of is the other one in Leeds, Awesome detail. my favourite bit is the lacquered steel tabi covers complete with spit toe.
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    It's only recently that antique Japanese weapons and armour have been elevated to such lofty heights in cultural consciousness. 30 or 50 years ago, these items were just "old knives and crap." You could buy "bring back" katanas at the gun show for $20. I read one author discussing the change in perceived value who related a story of seeing a farm youth using an antique katana as a scythe in the field.

    I'm not surprised that some old farmer might be using a do maru as a scarecrow. Most likely, when he acquired it, there was little to no value to it and, in his mind, still wasn't.

    Can I hazard a guess here? You saw this scarecrow between 10 and 20 years ago, right?

    Peace favor your sword,
  10. Ahmad89

    Ahmad89 Agent of Chaos

    I didn't see that.

Share This Page