"It's the anchored style Defondo multiple hits blocking drill."

I saw this on Master Ron Saturno's fb a few days back and thought it was related to the corto to largo talk, but I also thought this deserved its own thread.

Here's the [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DlEKR85K0k"]video[/ame] he posted, and I guess [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wg-VjOalH0"]this[/ame] is how it's supposed to have looked.

And here's the ensuing discussion on the drill:



[Removed for profuse swearing throughout]


...

(another guy's post...)

 

Well that's retarded.

 

I'm going to ask that we not use that word to describe something of which we disapprove, as it's a term associated with those living with a disability. And such individuals have enough to contend with without also being viewed as synonymous with "dumb."

 

It looks like a static version of a drill I teach - it is done under various power levels from 40%-100% depending on student comfort level, but it is designed for largo mano.

The Bahala Na group do a similar drill, but again they MOVE with it, which is one of the first things taught in FMA (well, it is by me anyway). Go to about the 2:14 mark

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUuIuRgk9Ds"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUuIuRgk9Ds[/ame]

Standing there and "taking" the hit is not conditioning it is dumb - imagine standing there whilst Eric Knaus hit you! Your ancestors would feel it!!! Hell even if *I* hit you in that position you would have problems

see the aim of the drill, but the execution is pretty ba

 

that's a rather silly thing to do, the only value i can see in it is that this drill shows clearly why you should get out of the way when somebody swings a stick at you.

 

Nothing wrong with that type of training exercise.. In the classical training of the eskrima systems that I trained in, we didn't use safety equipment as it was based on reactionary movements to defend your self.. In other words, you snoozed, you bruised.. I still train some of my advanced students like that with no problem as it increases your reaction speed and keeps you awake and alive in situations that dictate that natural action in defense

 

I'm the opposite here, I think everything's wrong with this drill, and it's not a question of safety equipment, the concept is flawed:

1). If you notice not everyone doing the hitting is uniform in their hits--because they don't want to hurt the guy.

2). Everyone doing the hitting is purposely telegraphing their hits--because they don't want to hurt the guy.

3). The receiver is anticipating for a pretty lengthy period for those hits--because he doesn't want to get hurt.

So, from the git go, you get the sense that these guys themselves aren't buying this drill. You're not really "increasing your reaction speed", because you're not really reacting to anything (see 1 and 2). It really doesn't "keep you awake and alive" because you're waiting for it (see 3).

But the most important point is that there is absolutely nothing realistic about it--other than it teaches you to have "faith" or to "trust" your block.

Sure I can see stress testing blocks, but something like static blocks is such a non-essential concept in FMA, that this drill should be done during a break in a corner with your buddy, ie. "hey, man, hit me... hit me again, harder" (that sorta deal).

Here though it seems like they are really making a big deal out of this. Now I'm wondering what else they have in their curriculum--I'm not being facetious here, I'm curious.

 

Exactly! It's simple Physics. For me this drill would've been as realistic, and as rational, had the receiver been attacked by sledge hammer wielding colleagues.:hammer:

 

That was a cool video, Hannibal, I think I know where the "lost in translation" occured. Thanks! There's supposed to be a lot more movement involved.

 

over at FMA forum

Over at FMA Forum (General FMA discussion), there are two great threads up top right now, one on footwork and the other on sparring.

I'd agree with hopper, in that footwork is the main lesson worth learning in this particular "drill", whether you take big steps (largo) or small steps (corto) the lesson here is footwork. Use your feet, move!

This particular drill is kind of like sparring but not really, might as well incorporate this drill in sparring, so you get maximum return for the risk assumed.

Otherwise, from a risk/benefit calculus, getting hit hard with a stick will get you hurt, we all take calculated risks, but if the only lesson to be had here is that you're suppose to get out of the way, was all that risk worth it?

In addition, I see similar paths in the fetishization of the blade (PTK, etc.) and of the light rattan stick (Serrada, etc.). It's similar to tunnel vision, when you specialize a little too much, you end up missing the forest for the trees, weapons specific drills vs. wider concepts--

what happens if the assailant's swinging a crow bar or pipe, if your opponent's wielding a ginunting, what happens if both of you are wielding ginuntings, how will this drill affect the gamut of possibilities, the various weapons?

 

The more I do FMA the more I see the importance of footwork and movement... whether that's just shuffling back and forth or level changes...and angling. And that goes for any MA. So just to stand there and take hits seems a bit pointless. It's kinda, "Remember all that footwork you've been doing for 3 years, well, now...don't do it!!". It's kinda going backwards.

Just my no00ob opinion, but movement first, blocks (*ahem*) second...and that block can be just throwing your weapon up to cover you.

I understand that the drill can help toughen you up and prepare you for ambush style attacks (as someone might have said on the facebook comments - can't find it now), but surely your footwork should be instinct and happen if you get attacked. That's the point of drilling it so much.

I think the drill would be ok if the students were allowed to move a little as in the Giron video. We do similiar stuff but use basic triangle footwork.

Nice beard Grasshopper.

 

The guy doing the criticising on the facebook screengrab likes to offer the dubious benefit of his expert opinion a lot on facebook.

 

It isn't so controversial. I mean when we did a wall drill, you had your back against the wall, your hands tied behind your neck and all you could do not to get tagged by your partner swinging for the rafters was your ability to bob and weave.

 

The wall drill comes straight from boxing and specifically addresses being cornered or on the rope--you bob & weave to manage, but unless you're playing 'rope-a-dope', you're supposed to get out of Dodge.

As long as there's movement involved I can see it's value, but if you noticed the first video (knee guy), he's almost doing the splits--which means concepts were lost in doing this drill.

Ambush connotes some element of surprise, here people are running up to you, telegraphing their hits. For those using multiple strikes, it looks like their second & third hits are specifically aimed at the receiver's stick--great for show, but leaves the receiver with a false sense of accomplishment.

Agree with you completely, footwork is key in this drill--without it the drill is a feel good exercise.

Do you mean Master Ron Saturno?

 

I've done drills like this in the past to get the students over the fear of the on coming blow and actually encourage them to move into the strike. All I see here especially in the first clip was a guy in a strange position trying to block not so hard strikes except the one that hit him in the knee. That one looked to me like the guy made sure he missed the block and he deliberately struck the knee. I got the impression he was being a tad vindictive.

 

No I don't. I mean the guy doing the criticizing.

 

it's just not really a good idea to do semi live training like this without moving. it could build bad habits.

as my sensei says (when we are training kubodo) "if somebody is swinging a big stick at you and trying to hurt you, MOVE!"

 

i dont see/understand the lesson in this.
before i ever held sticks, i was taught to "dance" at the age of 4, that means to move, dont get hit, move, move move...my grandfather always shouted.
held my first sticks and learned sinawali by the age of 7.
if they want to simulate a real fight, they should use real bolo/pinute/bungay/kris.
nothing will ever replace the real thing, confronting a guy infront of you with a blade (pinute) and you know one false move and you'll see your arm hanging from your shoulders.
i've seen some wrost sparring, the video from the dogbrothers, where when one guy got disarmed, the disarmed guy rushes and grapple with the guy with a stick. i mean srsly? you wanna try that move with a pinute? you want to experience the real fight with pinute first hand? come to pagadian. we have it all the time and you'll see how your training is idiotic.

 

Pagadian? Are you from the Subanen? What's the name for their knife fighting there ? Friend of mine once made a claim he learned their knife from his father who was a scout ranger who once got lost there.