Hello, I am wondering how many of you have achieved this simple but mandatory process in IMA and Qigong training. A Daoist master I have recently spoken to knows of many IMA practitioners and others who don't have the lower dantien full of qi. Even he told me the case of a famous American Taijiquan supposed to be master who was tested by a Chinese Daoist master who verified that the xia dantien of this individual was only 30% full!! And this individual trained Taiji 5 hours per day and even wrote few books on the subject! Man, I tell you, people focus too much on the form and neglect mental training. Advice: Start meditating now before you become a Tai Chi con-artist. Regards,
I wasn't aware that qi could be quantified in percentage terms. Could you elaborate on the testing method which produced this figure?
Did he measure his jing, shen and yi too Gerard ? Maybe they should of just had a tear up sorry couldn't resist. Gerard I agree that in IMA/taiji movement in stillness is very important, but I would have reservations in making a claim that it is any more/less important than stillness in movement. Taiji goes a bout things a certain way hsingyi/hsingi has its ways, yi quan. Neigong, bagua etc. etc. Ima's have plenty of training routes. In taiji the form can be used as reference to myriad standing practices, not least for training shen. I'm assuming you are not referring to seated meditation. I don't think it is particularly associated with development in IMA/CMA. Excellent for the mind - yes. I sit, and is a great base for meditative practices in MA (wu/wei - void) or whatever focus. - but qi/yi development for MA - it would not be my first choice. taiji - the 'moving' kind is great for qi development IMHO as is 'static' qi/nei gong. The mind IS THE mover of ALL. COMBINING movement and stillnes is the KEY to TJQ and other IMA's I fancy, which side you approach from not that big a deal IMHO. Neither should be neglected though.. When you've gone and found that out in the Wudang mountains, get back to me. From the Japanese tradition at my school, we also draw on esoteric/meditative training methods based on 5 elements of which 'void' is one. These practices can take different forms moving/still - standing/seated so I am not talking from my .... The overiding factor in any form of training is the mindstate. The body/spirit aspects are just as important. Intention is the key, it is the first thing to spring from void. Cultivating qi is one thing, delivering it is another. No sung in movement - forget it. 'Song' in mind can also be cultivated in movement as well as stillness When you look at a tree Gerard, it may appear still, but is it? movement in stillness stillness in motion same, same What I am trying to get accross Gerard is that there is a lot more to combat than just qi, sometimes I feel you tend to overlook that fact. I have kept this on a traditional level, but personally I also admire/hold in high regard 'Western'/'modern' ideals of training. Dan Docherty's Wudang school use kettleball training along with neigong, what do you make of that? These things are not mutually exclusive as you would have us beleive my friend. A well rounded training program is the way to go, at least for me. And don't tell me you can't cultivate qi in the lower dan tien through taijiquan form. Maybe this American guy just had a crap teacher, or maybe he wasn't virtuous or low pre-bith qi. I notice you didn't mention any names. Regards
What does a qi measuring device look like?! Mate, the post is useful but quit with the "30%" comments, please!!
Before I go maybe this website will enlighten you a bit: http://wongkk.com/answers/ans04b/jul04-3.html
Gerard, the stupid replies aside, i for one would actually like to know the process of measuring the percentage of ki in the dan tien, if you could send me a PM with some info about it i would appreciate it.
Oh yah? Hey guess what! Noone cares, go be amazed somewhere else if youve got nothing to add but an annoyance.
When I was training with my teacher, he would put his hands, without touching, one above the 'dan tien' and the other above the 'ming men', and then usually tell me to do more 'dan tien' exercises. He is infinitely more skilled then me, so I guess he would feel something, though there is no way of me knowing for sure, but I do trust his words, as he was right about everything else he said.
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While I question the gullibility of certain people... Gerard poses an interesting thought... Personally my Dan Tian is fuller on some days than on others... I too would like to know how the Qi is measured...
You said it mate ..the guy does this as a matter of nature....making snide remarks as if he knows it all, yet contributing a big nothing in the post. That aside, yes the notion of whether one's Dantien is full is taken seriously in my class. Some say it takes 100 days of serious daily Qigong before the 3rd ( lowest) Dantien is full The 2nd Dantien is behind sternum. and the 1st Dantien is between eyes ( regarded as the 3rd eye by Yogis ) One's Dantien takes proportinately longer to be full if one has a stressful life, an exciting life or regular sex - all the things the uses up the jing and chi.
Okay - sorry for my earlier joke lol IMO you can 'fill' or 'empty' the lower dantien quite quickly if you know how. 100 days would be a good yardstick for initial development perhaps. HOWEVER there is a general level of how much qi is generally always present there or (imo) how strong your dantien is and this will reflect lifestyle and practices you do. The lower dantien can be identified physically in an external way as the belly (hara in japanese) but is truly a psychic centre if identified internally as are the upper two dantiens also. Filling it up is therefore a subjective experience largely dictated by yi or hsing. Physical and psychic blockages will affect how well we can cause qi to flow there. If I had to measure how 'full' or 'empty' someone's dantien was - I would experience it more as how big or well developed their 'elixir field' (dantien) was, how present, how intense, how fluid or blocked, the quality of its energy etc etc I do not experience the dantien as a space personally - it is a potentiality, a concept, a nexus point imo (that's why I laughed at the earlier description of it 'only being 30% full' - it makes it sound like a bucket! - but actually it's quite an ambiguous description if you think about it isn't it? ) In the alchemy I was taught though, you do not 'store' qi in the dantien - you can gather it there to channel it elsewhere, you can hold it there a little while, but you shouldn't store it there - it can cause you harm if you do. It should be 'stored' (channeled to might be a better description) in the bone marrows where it can then be transformed into jin (jin as in internal power not jing as in essence - spellings of this always throw me lol) later it can be raised and/or circulated (depending on the method used) to develop into shen (spiritual/transcendent energy). Qi is a creative, generative energy that must always be in flow - it isn't baked beans that you can store in a can til you need to eat it (lol) If it stands still it will become something else, working on the area where it is - hence 'stagnant qi' - it will cause imbalances, pains, sickness, cancers and the like. Another point is that although qi practices generally talk about flowing along meridians from A to B this is not always the case. At the higher levels of qi work it can materialise or disappear without any linear dimensionality at all. Linear stuff, maps and structures are for human beings anchored in a material existence... really just a beginners way to get into energy work - that's why it can't be measured by conventional, scientific tests and methods lol (baked beans it ain't! ) Final point - opinions and methodologies differ on the locations of the dantiens. Particularly the middle one. Some say behind the sternum, others the solar plexus which is lower. This is really a massive clue to the psychic (non-physical, mental, spiritual, call it what you will - nei or internal are the proper terms imo) nature of dantien work. I actually use both sternum and solar plexus as a linked looped complex in my inner work, I also link the upper dantien to the heart centre at times for particular practices. The lowest is the primary work area for beginning Taijiquan practice (first twenty or thirty years or so ROFLMAO) The upper two are largely best left alone until you have a really well developed qi flow/system and lower dantien. You can get to them okay but getting out again and anchoring to the earth correctly requires well developed neigong imo/e Peace harmony and 100% qi in your buckets one and all - particularly Soggy :Angel:
