Is this really Karate?

To expand on what Mitlov said, I think Machida is a great example of the transition between theory and practice. Superfoot (hope you're feeling better btw!!), you come up with some valid arguments, but if those were the main issues, I would think it unlikely that Machida would be in such a high position in the UFC right now. As we have debated to death in the karate forum, kihon is a training tool, whereas Kumite allows you to find your own style within the kihon and kumite. I'll admit now my tailbone sticks out way too far. It doesn't mean I can't kick hard and if a bag wasn't present I'd do someone real damage. But as long as I can recover quick enough, and generate similar power again, I'm probably going to be in a stronger position, especially if my balance is holding up. If Machida's technique was compromising his balance it would be an issue, but watch how he kicks: when he kicks he commits. Therefore he is going to hit something - a body or a block. Either way he knows he wont have to return to his original position, meaning he can sacrifice a few % of his balance. Unlike traditional karate-ka in all kihon and some kumite

 

By the way, just for Superfoot, here's that Kyokushin karateka Midori Kenji showing that, when he's not going for a knockout blow, he can throw more than one kick without putting his foot down

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joQ1cJKNSWo"]YouTube - Most Martial Arts Kicks in 1 Min (using one leg)[/ame]

 

for the record, machida did fall over once, throwing a weird ass roundhouse/crescent kick hybrid which got his foot caught on the ropes in one of his early fights

as for good technical kicking, serkan yilmaz ftw

 

Superfoot-

I can't believe you are comparing him to stuntmen and form competitor winners. They have EXCELLENT kicks, no doubt, but of course Machida's technique is not as pretty as theirs.

But you didn't say, "Hey I think there are really really good people with better kicks. This is what you said:

You made him sound like a complete novice. A guy who falls over every time he throws a high kick in a match. Like he was a life long wrestler who is trying to learn kicks (see Hendo versus Franklin). This is CLEARLY not the case with Machida who has good technique. He could walk into any dojo/dojang and people, even without knowing who he is and his accomplishments, would be like, "This guy is good!"

Well maybe I wouldn't. If I had a bad day at work and was feeling irritable I'd probably be saying, "This guy isn't THAT great. I'd be working him over if he would just stop sweeping me on my ass every time I got close to him..."



EDIT:

And if I could just bring up another point. You say something like this to a guy who showed up to a local MT/Kickboxing smoker who got worked over. As in, "You gotta respect him for doing this, but he has a lot to learn..." It really doesn't fit when you are talking about a pro who is the champion of his division.

 

I will see your Midori Kenji video and raise you a Chloe Bruce clip:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJD9RqlPkCU"]YouTube - Chloe Bruce - GUINNESS WORLD RECORD 2009[/ame]

(Fast forward to 5:55)

On the contrary - Tim Man is not just a stunt man. He started out as an amateur TKD fighter. And I've seen sport TKD/Karate folk kick better than Machida, but remember I'm judging him by different standards to everyone else. For me it's all about lookimg pretty

You love pwning me on threads, don't you

 

Yes, they were quite lovely, weren't they? :evil:

 

:happy:

 

That's the real reason we watch these kicking records...

*faints*

 

Just my $0.02....

My wife got me the Machida-Do Karate DVDs for a gift. I'm only through the first one so far, but for what it's worth throughout you can see a HUGE karate influence in his movement and striking. You have to remember, not only did the guy do lots of tournaments in his youth but his father is Yoshizo Machida of the JKA. You're not going to be the son of a karateka of that caliber and not be influenced by him.

From the bits I've seen, all his kicks are thrown in traditional karate fashion (even favoring the ball of the foot for certain mawashi geri), his stance is straight out of Shotokan point sparring, his non-striking arm moves back slightly for that reactionary force, etc. It's all there. He even shows himself and his brother performing kata at the end.

 

Out of curiousity, how did you drop the hint? I really want my wife to get me the Machida-Do videos for Hanukkah or Christmas* but I'm not sure how to really drop the hint effectively; I've hinted a bit but I'm pretty sure it hasn't registered.

* Fact: mixed-religion families are awesome come December.

 

replace the wearing of shirts with the wearing of cardboard signs that say "does NOT want machidas DVD's in december, oh no." if that fails to register, make another saying "DEFINITELY don't want those DVD's. don't buy them for the holidays, please" and replace your pants.

 

I tried the subtle stuff like leaving the website up when I knew she would be using the computer next, things like that. Nothing. So I flat out told her "Hey, great gift idea!" That worked.

 

I personally don't see what all of the fuss is about - the guy does karate, has been doing it his whole life, and even states in an interview in Black Belt Magazine that his style is Machida Karate. He even uses karate techniques and karate strategies when he fights. The main differences between his karate and the popular (mis)conception of karate is that he has adapted his karate for a different ruleset. It's straight karate, he just changed his game to work under a different ruleset. I think that a lot of people have a hard time accepting the fact that a Karate guy is succeeding within MMA when, according to their narrow minded assertions, Karate is ineffective and doesn't work. I see a blatant denial of one man's style because so many people believe that it is a fact that karate "doesn't work". Since that ignorant assertion has been destroyed, people are running for the hills and trying to manufacture all types of excuses and alternative explanations in an effort to undermine the man's core style, and the fact that it has worked on several occassions when so many people believe beyond the shadow of a doubt that it can't work. If it were any other style, nobody would even care (save for TKD, of course). Basically, assertion of "that style can't/doesn't work" + evidence of style working perfectly = "no, he is not doing that style, he can't be, it must be something else". Sorry, but he is doing Karate, he even says it himself, and the tape doesn't lie, either.

 

Superfoot, I see what you are saying about the kicking. I also see what others are saying. I certainly applaud people like Chloe Bruce who have excellent technical prowess with their kicks, but as has been said, there is a big difference between a demo and an actual sparring situation/competition where the other person is trying to knock your head off and vice versa. I think that even Chloe Bruce's technique would suffer should you put her under that type of pressure. Machida's kicks are not picture perfect demo material, but they work for him and they get the job done, which is of far greater merit in his situation than looking good (and vice versa concerning Chloe Bruce and her situation). I think context is important here, and while his kicks may not be absolutely perfect (name one technique that is when the someone is put in the pressure cooker), they work for him and what he is involved in. In the arena that he is competing in, I would rate effectiveness far higher than technicality and good looks on the scale of importance.