Is systema just a taiji rip off?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by stevieb8006, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    True, but "Systema" as it used outside of Russia/Former Soviet Union refers pretty exclusively to one of two variants (as identified by Fusen). His confusion with ROSS was because it is "Rossijskaya Otechestvennaya Sistema Samozashschity" - which fits in with your point above.

    Technically you could teach shotokan and Win Chun and call it "Mixed Martial Arts" - it technically is, but the meaning of MMA is very specific these days - same with Systema IMO
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Whats the background to Kevin s's articles??
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    There's plenty of documentation, it's in the same book as the proof of TKD's 2000 year old history, the true history of ninjutsu and proof of everything the Pathwalker's guild says.

    If only we could find it...

  4. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor mean the Pathwalkers aren't LARPing gypsy Fremen?!?


    Sign me up now!!!
  5. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    This is Mikhails current bio, taken off his website:

    "Career: Worked in militia in RF Ministry of Interior Security Department, trained the Minister’s security guards. Advisor for RF Minister of Justice.
    Deputy Head of RF Ministry of Interior Management Department, fulfilled personal commissions of RF Ministry of Interior Security Department. Senior Public Prosecutor in Organisational and Inspectoral Department of RF General Prosecutor Office. Assistant to RF General Prosecutor.

    During 10 years served in special units, participated in military actions, hostage release operations, worked as instructor in centre for operative and technical training of special task unit. Veteran of military actions and veteran of labour.

    Has national awards from RF President, Minister of Interior. Awarded with personalised name arms by Minister of Justice Y.Chaika. Also has awards from Russian Orthodox Church, is a member of Board of Trustees for Construction and Restoration of Russian Orthodox Church Temples and Monasteries in Russia and abroad"

    As far as documentation goes, I don't have access to Soviet military records. I think Yesterdays hits the nail on the head - I'm not sure how much official anything you can find for these units even today when things are more "open"

    My feeling from talking to Mikhail and others is a lot of his training was with colleagues in units. When I have trained with him in Moscow there have been members of some different units there, though it seems on an individual basis rather than as a unit. That's his open class though, what he does in an official capacity working for the Minister of Justice I don't know

    I've been to his house a couple of times, there are some photos he has of the "old days". Some are around on the web, others probably not.

    You can also check the backgrounds of people around him - Konstantin Komarov, Sergei Ozhereliev for example. Of course the difficulty with research is language and how accessible information is and I guess politics will rear its head at some point

    I also have some contacts within the SF community in the UK, one or two have had dealings with Mikhail's people and have only positive things to say.

    In any case it's easy to run up some documents on the PC these days. I know there are questions asked of anyone who claims to have taught SF and rightly so. A couple of people were caught out last year making claims, so I don't think it's the sort of untruth that can be covered up for long these days

    For me, having been around these people and seeing how others react to them, seeing their operational knowledge and the access to people and places they have - not to mention where Mikhail works - I don't doubt they are who they say they are
  6. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Click here for links to Russian sources with English translations

    It seems members of the Russian Orthodox Church, including military chaplains, considers Ryabko's Systema to be a heretical cult.

  7. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    I don't see any links there, perhaps their on another page of the thread you linked or maybe I'm just being dumb. Could you just repost them here for our easy reference.
  8. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    I believe the person being quoted is Anatoly Berestov should people wish to Google.

    On the other hand
    "In November 2012, Patriarch Kirill awarded M.V.Ryabko Jubilee medal and a diploma in memory of the victory in the Patriotic War of 1812"

    [ame=""]правда о ÑиÑтеме РÑбко - YouTube[/ame]
  9. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Wow, he's older than he looks then!

  10. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    :D 1812? It's only ten past nine now...
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just send me a cheque for $2000.

    Once the bank has cleared it I'll send you your stillsuit kit, kris knife, instructional DVD, black belt and a copy of "Tramps and Thieves" by Cher.
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I give you this at half and double the DVD
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You've got the director's cut of Dune?
  14. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Fixed that for you.
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    But now you're missing the Gypsy element.

    So how about a Welsh choir singing David Essex's back catalogue?
  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Don't give anyone ideas!
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Dexy's Midnight Runners anyone?
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Gypsy element? Oh,you want my copy of "Music of the Traveling People of Ireland". Tinkers indigenous,gypsys not.
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I presume MadMonk108 mentioned gypsies because we have a place in Romania. So, no tinkers for us!

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