Is KSW turning into a sissy art?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by MACA, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. Saja

    Saja Valued Member

    Sorry. I don't see reminding you of YOUR posts as mud slinging. The problem with truth is that it can't be white washed. When you said you believed in OT, I did the same, so I merely re posted what He claims, and what YOU wrote in the HKD forum. Since you believe in OT, and I quoted from his own application, his claims MUST be correct... or are they :) In any case, like I said, OT has to live with this, and it matters not to me.

    MY problem was, and still is, that there is something seriously wrong with organizations and/or Grand Masters that do these things to push their own agenda. You might be able to BS folks who have not been around, but I was at the Kido seminar in Chicago when you were an upstart. I KNOW your background Sir, and it galls me to see you call the kettle black with your post on GM Jeanotte.

    You bring up GM Seo's name, and that is sad. GM Seo works his butt off for his organization, and he trusts those who request certification. I said it at my speech in San Francisco, and I say it again. The Masters who request such questionable certification do NOT help him OR the person who gets it.

    When someone makes a statement about me or NKMAA, I set the record straight. I did not even mention names in my reply to Heyongsa, it was YOU folks who named names and talked trash. All someone needs to do is look at your post on GM Jeanotte in the HKD forum to see the kind of trash talking you do. Don't tell ME I am slinging mud.


    When I first started reading this site I was a Third Dan, after 11 yrs.( or so), and noticed someone about my age that was ranked at 4th and 5th dan in at least 3 MAs. I PM'd HIM, and asked about it because I could not fathom a person acheiving what looked to me to be well over 60 years of training in such a short time. He explained how he cross trained in two very simeler arts at the same time. Transfered to another simelar art later. Most of the rankings represented the same thing. With minor changes in forms and order. and one ranking represented an art he studied as a younger man. While I Probably wouldn't List the 3 Like Arts on my "reume" I wouldn't presume the rite to deny Him.

    At the present I am a 4th dan in Mu Sool Won, under GM Lee, I had acheived the same ranking in WKSA, I feel as I left that Org. And used my prior training to transfer to my present Org. While it is part of my training history, My rank is in my current Org.
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Christ what a list. :rolleyes:

    How does anyone post this about themselves or let others post it in reference to them and keep a straight face. This has to be some sort of record for absurdity... no amount of explaining/waffle/whatever gives that list a chance to be taken seriously.
  4. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Well, I never cared much for YOUR opinion on anything, so it's not like I'm gonna start now. :rolleyes:

    I'll tell you what's absurd, is the fact that people who claim to be so humble and ALWAYS talk up the fact about how the certificates hanging on the walls of their MA studio, are nothing but *glorified* toilet paper, and then go get all bent out of shape becuase someone else is claiming all sorts of rank and whatnot, in multiple arts no less. So what! We all know that it's not the number associated with the degrees of black belt (i.e. dan) that matters, but rather the skill, the knowlegde, and other related stuff while on the mat, that shows the true merits of any individual that we should show respect towards, as a fellow MAlst.

    I agree to a point, that listing a bunch of credentials may have a tendency to set off people's BS meter, but I hafta say that I'm comfortable with the explanation given by OTL (it should also be noted that he's been doing MA since he was a child, so attaing high rank while still in his 20's seems altogether practical IMO). I would suspect that for any wonnies, where cross-training is verboten, that this concept is somewhat foreign, but I can see where listing all the certificates one has earned, especially if still currently active in the respective arts, would be the natural course to follow.

    When I was in WKSA, I admit to laughing at folks who would say stuff like, "I'm just a 1st dan in KSW, but I'm a 2nd dan in TKD" when introducing themselves to other black belts (usually gathered for some big event). In those instances it WAS a bit illogoical to mention the TKD ranking, simply because KSW dictates forbid the continuance of further training (and therefore the option of further advancement in rank) in the other art, not to mention the fact that aside from the forms, KSW has all the same elements (plus more) as something like TKD. However, if you have the time & the inclination, AND the MA organization to which you belong DOESN'T restrict you from training elsewhere, then getting multiple certificates actually seems like the logical thing to do (going with the concept that more=better), especially if you're not having to go out of your way to develop additional skillsets in order to train in more than one MA.

    I also want to say that I don't see the correlation mentioned by Saja, WRT the thread about Jae Jeannotte (over in the HKD subforum). IIRC, Moosulmaster merely pointed out that the guy acted *fishy* when asked about his MA background. OTOH, it would seem that perhaps OTL has provided TOO much background information, and is being ridiculed for being so thorough in iisting all his credentials. A case of "apples & oranges" if I ever saw one. :yeleyes:
  5. Saja

    Saja Valued Member

    "Me: I have several doubts, thats why I am asking questions. Skill on the mat does not make one a 10th dan. I am just curious about your background"

    This statement made by Mr. Murphy in his post on the HKD forum clearly indicates that he does not believe "skill on the mat" makes a 10th dahn.

    If we hold to this thought, how does OTL's 4th dahn in HKD rank differ? In his own bio of 2006, OTL states that he has NO HKD (or Hap Ki Do type) training. So, even if he started in a full time HKD school in 2007 (which he did not), he has at most 5 years of training in HKD. In just about ANY legitimate school of HKD, it would take the average person that long to EARN a first dahn.

    Given that he has had to spend at least SOME time with the other items on his list, is it ANY wonder people might say WOW (just like Mr. Murphy did as he perused Mr. Jeanotte's "credentials").
  6. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    WOW ( just because I could say WOW. I like to say WOW! WOW is a great word! WOW WOW WOW - I am sorry just caught a Victoria Secret Ad- WOW!):evil:
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I'd be interested if someone could give me a little info please on Wa Ai Ju (Choshoku Ryu Kenpo Jutsu).
  8. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    I don't want to say I told you so...But...

  9. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    wow. all those credentials just make me happy he found a home. hopefully from now on j$ can call the banner of jtms, and only jtms.
  10. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    I said nothing that was not true, Saja. You posted these accomplishments on the NKMAA FB page and said "wow". When the members of your association began bashing him you did nothing to stop them and you yourself joined in on the "fun". Only someone of zero moral fiber would post accomplishments of another, be it true or false, and take the time out to humiliate that person. Being a martial artist, and especially one that claims the title of master, means to be nice to one another. The worst thing was you made fun of another WKF member while being a 9th Dahn and Association head and all while you were still in the WKF! That is reprehensible. Where is the "family unity" you love to preach? I know I said I'm done but being called a liar is something I will not tolerate. Then again, I don't use my free time by humiliating others. I train. I will not reply to this anymore. Say what you want, I'm done.
  11. Saja

    Saja Valued Member

    Heyongsa. The comments made on my face book page were NOT made by NKMAA members. I have hundreds of visitors there, and what they say is not under my control. The FACT of the matter is that I have come to the defence of OTL a number of times, the first one was when he was talked about in the TSD forum of KJN Mac. Second, you have your facts wrong, I resigned from WKF before any of this took place.

    While at the WKF Summit, I addressed this very situation during my speech, and I pleaded with the members not to undo all of the hard work GM Seo has done for so many years. I also said on my own page that OTL has lots of talent, and he could be a significant contributor to martial arts in the future. NEVER have I made fun of this situation, as it is waay too sad to see this happen.

    In closing, I will find that thread on my page, and I will have it available for anyone who is interested in seeing the truth. I will respect the MAP policy on such things, and avoid continuation on this issue.

    Here is Heyongsa's statement that I responded too. "Recently the NKMAA posted a young man's accomplishments and were, in essence, making fun of him".

    Perhaps you do not understand how face book works. I have a page, and anyone can come and visit. Many do, and some of them make comments on the page. MOST of those are not members of NKMAA, and your insinuation that NKMAA "were in essence making fun of him" was nothing short of wrong. YOU said I accuse you of lying. Where do I make this statement? Do not put words in my mouth or bend the truth. Hell, you even hide behind a pseudo to make your erroneous statements.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  12. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Hey Hyeongsa, I have not posted any negative comments about anyone. If my words offend someone it was never meant to do so. I have never claimed that someone is credible or not. What I do see is in the world of the Martial Arts it is very common to self promote self promote.... If no one else is willing to do it then they should do it themselves. Unforgettably there is NO governing body for ALL Martial Artist hence you must govern yourself. If you are a good teacher people will see that and tell others, if you suck then the same applies. The only problem is John Q Public does not know or care. Posting someone accomplishments so the world can see is not wrong. Doing so ONLY to make fun of them, is. I posted a persons accomplishments of an individual on here just showing how he self promoted himself. If you take from that a DISRESPECT issue then you are looking for negativity. I was only showing that people can self promote themselves to death. Is it better to great at a few thing than just OK at 333 things?

  13. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    This is the problem I see with mingling "clique" mentality & the internet (i.e. FaceBook - yeah I know, that's a different thread). Before the advent of hi-speed digital communication, sniping at someone's character, when confined to the inner circle of the clique, could provide amusement for the members of the clique in a way that strengthens their bond of friendship, all the while doing no harm or insult to anyone else, including the person who's the butt of the joking/ribbing. Unfortunately, people tend to forget that informational leaks are much more likely to occur when dealing in the medium of t3h interw3bs (LOL). Therefore, tossing out words such as "reprehensible" in referring to Saja, is just as much a case of "the pot calling the kettle, black" as was already mentioned earlier in this thread.

    Of one thing I'm certain... you might as well beat your head against the wall :)bang:) as try to change people's minds concerning the *appropriateness* of any rank bestowed upon MAisits (IOW, some will agree & yet others won't, vehemently in fact). But I'm also sure that we can all manage to put such minor differences aside, in projecting the good qualities about MA (our own particular variety, especially) when publicizing it to the general public.

    Since NO one is "holier than thou" it makes more sense to embrace TRUE morality & dignity by simply dropping the subject and moving on with our lives. I imagine that no *real* insults were intended, so it would be foolish to grasp onto this incident as if it were worthy of starting some kind of feud (cuz it isn't). My suggestion is to let bygones be bygones, and not to quibble over the small stuff. :bow1:
  14. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    whatever. i'm not a master. i'll disrespect whoever i want. if being a 6th-9th dan means i
    can't call a spade a spade i'll stay happily below that level
  15. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    But you felt compared to then write several paragraphs as a response?
    Come on sweetheart I'm sure you do care otherwise your pretty little fingers wouldn't have typed so feverishly. :hat:
  16. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"
  17. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    I'd still like to hear about this Shoshin (sp?) judo or whatever it was
  18. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Go check out his intro video on this:

    After about 15 seconds of watching it I knew all I wanted to know about the guy!
  19. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Are you talking about Shojin Judo Herbo?
  20. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Actually, STJ, I don't care what you or any other non-practitoner of TKMA has to say on the subject, nor why you think the *regulars* of such subforums as this one might be interested in your POV. :rolleyes:

    TBH, I merely used your post (#203), which incidentally was the last one up until my reply, as a segue to voice my opinion (that a feud might develop if rumors were allowed to run rampant).

    But *whatever*, dude... feel free to believe what you want - cuz I couldn't care less. :yeleyes:
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011

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