Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by MACA, Sep 23, 2011.
As I have always said, I am a master at nothing but working my A** off trying to get there. I have a "Gentleman" here in my area:
Professor Hargrave, a native Oklahoman, received martial arts training from instructors located throughout the United States. In 1993 he received the Instructor of the Year award for his teaching in the art of Jeet Kune Do, the style founded by Bruce Lee, and was also inducted into the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame. In 1995 Hargrave was the youngest person to be promoted to Professor of martial arts and he received the Instructor of the Year award for his teaching in Karate. In 1996 he received the award for Best Martial Arts School in the United States, and was recognized by U.S. Congress and the United States Senate for this achievement. Hargrave holds instructor / black belt rankings in Kempo Karate, Kung Fu, Goshin Jutsu, Jeet Kune Do, Aiki Jitsu, Tae Kwon Do, and is the author of two martial arts books. Hargrave is the founder SOKE of the styles known as Combat Martial Arts and American Combat Kempo which he introduced in 1992, and in 2000 was presented the International Founders Award by Dr. E.A. Moore (President of the World Martial Arts hall of Fame)as recognition for the defense system.
First Martial Arts Training in 1968 with Hanshi Lou Angel in Goju Karate
Authored Original Jeet Kune Do Training Manual
Second Generation Jeet Kune Do Instructor
Certified JKD Instructor 1992, Jeet Kune Do Association
Founding Board Member 1992, Jeet Kune Do Association
Authored Combat Martial Arts Kempo Karate Manual 1993
Instructor of the Year JKD, World Martial Arts Hall of Fame, Presented by G. W. Dill and Jeet Kune Do Association
Certified JKD Instructor FJKD Association 1993
Certified Black Belt Tae Kwon Do 1993
Certified Black Belt Bushido Kempo, Promoted by G.W. Dill
Certified Black Belt Aiki Jitsu, Promoted Dr. Farenelli
Certified National College of Martial Arts, Instructor JKD, Black Belt Bushido Kempo, Black Belt Aiki Jitsu, Certified Lou Angel and G. W. Dill
Executive Director World Jeet Kune Do Federation 1992
Certified Black Belt 2nd Dan Kempo, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski
Certified Black Belt 2nd Dan Jujitsu, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnosk
Certified Black Belt 3nd Dan Kempo, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski
Certified Black Belt 3rd Dan Jujitsu, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski
Executive Director American Combat Kempo Association 1992
Certified Grandmaster Kung Fu 8th Degree Black Sash
Certified 8th Dan Black Belt Grandmaster Aiki Jujitsu
Instructor Headmaster Juko Kai Kokusai Remnei 1994
Certified 3rd Dan Black Belt Goshin Jutsu
Combat Martial Arts system featured on local newscasts. 1995
Awarded Karate Instructor of the Year, Inducted Martial Arts Hall of Fame 1995
Certified Shihan 5th Dan Kempo World Certified Instructor, Promoted by Dr. E. A Moore, Prof. Thomas Burdine, Prof. John Willaims, Prof. Ed Gross, Prof. Ray Gunther, Prof. Pelligrini.
Certified Professor of Martial Arts 1995
Appointed Executive Director World Martial Arts Hall of Fame Board Member 1995 --
Appointed a Director United Kung Fu Federation of North America 1995
Certified Professor 7th Dan Kempo Ryu Karate.
Certified Professor 7th Dan Combat Kempo Karate, American Kenpo Bu-Jutsu Karate
Awarded best martial art school in the U. S. Recognized by U. S Congress and US Senate.1996
Awarded Governors Commendation for best martial arts school --
Certified Hanshi 8th Dan Kempo Ryu Karate, 2000 -
Released Top Selling Original JKD Training and Ranking Video Series
Certified Soke Head Founder of a new Martial Art Style. Father of Combat Martial Arts. 2000 Certified by World Martial Arts Hall of Fame Sokeship Council, Board of Directors. --
Certified 10th Dan Kempo -- Multiple Certificates
Released American Combat kempo Training and Ranking Videos
Director World Kempo Association.
JKD Division Director World Budo Alliance
Certified Master Instructor Romania JKD Association
Inducted United States Martial Arts Association Hall of Fame 2001
Grandmaster of the Year United States Martial Arts Association. 2001 --
World Budo Alliance Grading Board Chairman
World Soke Council Member
Developed system adapted for training United States Marines
Member Hawaii Martial Arts International Society
Member World Filipino Martial Arts Association
Certified Guro Escrima
Certified Grandmaster 8th Dan Ju Jitsu 2009
Certified Grandmaster 8th Degree Black Sash Kung Fu 2009
This is a work in progress over the years. For the Masters and Grandmasters we may have left out we only have the greatest amount of love and respect and we hope to add everyone.
Member of many martial arts associations, federations, and organizations, also many organizations certifying the same ranks.
WHEN DOES HE FIND THE TIME TO ****?
Not really seeing any common ground here? Are you comparing this guy to my student? I hardly see a connection.
What's the difference between Shoshin judo and kodokan judo? Do you have any experience in the latter?
Ahh yes, Mr. Carter...................
Now, I’m just curious….suppose I’m ranked as a 5th Dahn master with an organization governing ABC Hapkido. Then I go to a seminar where I meet the Grandmaster of XYZ Hapkido, or maybe I jump ship and switch organizations. He cross ranks me because of the similarities between ABC hapkido and XYZ hapkido.
Does that mean I should list my rank as:
-5th Dahn ABC Hapkido AND
-5th Dahn XYZ Hapkido
Why list them separately? They represent the same training? Right?
(to OTL – not an attack on you. I have seen your stuff on youtube and think you are very skilled)
I am not to sure about someone claiming cross certification just because they attended a seminar? I have heard about dubious practices such as this but I know that OTL has never accepted rank in such a way! A person could be a Kukkiwon third Dan and a Third Dan Korea Chang Moo Kwan. These certifications do not represent a different skill set or even a different rank exam. The two certifications represent meeting qualification of two separate yet inter connected organizations.
In my organization our members receive dan certification from JTMS and Hanminjok Hapkido/World Kido, our parent organization. Again these certifications do not represent two different skill sets, they represent two inner connected organizations.
I was not comparing this "Gentleman" to anyone. Just one thing for the MAP'RS...
I was showing that anyone can make up certain cedits and rank if they wanted to BUT if you look closely at them you can see the truth. If someone has to post ALL there accomplishments on their website and something does not seem correct then the customer must investigate for themselves. If it seems to be to good to be true then most people will always assume it is false.
What I was trying to get at is we as Marketers must realize that seeming like or rank and accomplishments must fall into place with the normal perceptional out look of John Q Public.
When a man of 22 is a Master of 5 different martial arts you (the public) should automatically be drawn back to look deeper. How can anyone be a Master of 5 arts by age 22 while it takes the average person decades to become a Master of 1?
I have NO bad will toward any student or any Martial Artist. I was simply showing what people see question and take for truths with out any probing. So if a teacher can back up his or her accreditation then GREAT. but remember people will always think if something is to good to be true it is, even if it is not!
Put that guy's credentials in the JMA sections and watch their heads explode!
Thanks for your reply. I was not suggesting that OTL had done such a thing and apologize if that’s what it seemed like. I was just presenting a hypothetical. I think it’s valid to pose the question of what would be the best way to present multiple, so as to give an accurate representation of what they really mean, and was merely trying to steer the discussion down a productive path.
Thanks for the clarification Tulsa.Based on the your previous post, someone might have thought that you were comparing OTL with this other person.
FEEL FREE TO: I do not want those updates on my In Box. :evil:
I didn't think you were trolling at all. I thought your question quite reasonable ...... that's why I responded.
1... the information was taken directly off your site Sir, and it only came to my attention due to a post on facebook stating the same. This no doubt has been pulled down; however, a clever man on the computer can no doubt find the trail.
As far as MY credentials, your math seems a bit off. I inherited the art of KSB in 1985. I was born in 1940. This means that I was 45 years old, had survived WW2, immigrated to Canada, and after arriving here I was responsible for the three families that were not employed.
Furthermore, while I inherited the art, I never claimed the title until my Grand master passed away and I had left WKSA in 1998. This means I was 58 years old... twice your age
What you claim does not matter to me; however, what really is problematic to me is the fact that, by your own statement in your NKMAA application, you NEVER formally studied HKD. In fact, you were slated to test for 3rd dahn in TSD at the Gathering of Grand Masters in 2010. Prior to that, you attended ONE seminar with me in Florida, where we worked on Kibon Soo and Kicho Hyung. You may have attended a few more seminars since then, but given that you live hundreds of miles from your present instructor, how in the world did this translate into a 4th dahn certification? In most legitimate HKD schools, you would have had to study 13-15 years to EARN that rank.
FWIW, I did NOT intend to get into this; however, Hyeongsa made some erroneous statements about NKMAA that required a response.
The facts presented by OTL concerning his training and history are quite true. He has always been candid about his background and training. I have NEVER seen him list his TKMA ranks, as I have awarded them, on any website of his own. The situation is simple, who is to be believed? I for one believe in OTL. I wish all here well and have no desire to bicker over such matters. I have instructed OTL to ignore further comments as will I. Grandmaster In Sun Seo was very clear in a public statement concerning this very matter. Not only do I believe OTL, GM Seo does as well. I have found him to be not only a good person, but a hard worker, and a talented and qualified martial artist. OTL is a fourth dan because of his great skill set, because of his training and background, because he passed the fourth dan examination, because I say he is, and because GM In Sun Seo says he is. I did not want to get into this either but it was forced upon me. I am not willing to sit by idle, while my student is being slandered. For me and mine, this issue is closed.
No where do I see a slander here. HE posted his credentials, and all I see is a discussion on the long list of so called credentials.
What I DID see is your post about a VERY similar thing about GM Jeanotte (sp). It is OK for you to question that man's rank at length, but it seems a bit harder to swallow for you when YOUR rooster comes home.
Haha! Let the mud slinging begin. No Sir, sorry I am finished. I am not going to play this little game with you. I wish you the best in your remaining years. May they be filled with peace.
Separate names with a comma.