Indian and Filipino arts coming together

I think the clips above speak volumes.

 

there is a lot of misalignment going on in both arts. Suttle movements that to the untrained eye all too often miss. There is a lot of baiting going on too but the one principle the both share is about gaining position of advantage where you can do pretty much what they want and not getting yourself tied up in knots keeping your limbs free to do damage whilst at the same time tying your opponents up in knots.

There is a lot more that is hard to explain it needs to be experienced. But we will be working together again in the very near future as were planning another workshop in Leicester.

Best regards

Pat

 

I'd be interested in that second workshop.

Could you post it in the events section when you decide on it?

 

With just a quick view the Indian stuff looked like it had a lot of redirection mixed with strikes where the redirection becomes a strike. Reminded me of the movements in the Balintawok stuff I'd tried ages ago.

 

Looks like it was a real blast. Cross-training rocks! Gurudev seems like a very honest and capable teacher preserving a really interesting system.

 

I have heard a few people say that Nidar has made it up himself and if he has then the man is a genius and also bear in mind all fighting arts where invented by someone at some point so I say so what if he has.

Also I have heard people say he has mixed Silat etc into it etc? Where did Silat come from with empires such as the Sri Visiayan empire a Hindu based empire that had major cross links with India.

From my experience of combat arts having trained with many top exponents of the art around the world including the Philippines and Malaysia. All real combat arts that are still effective in today's society look in many way very similar because the share the same principles and common goals.

So I think the criticism I see here is one of jealousy because he is getting more national and international recognition because of his skills, knowledge and openess I know this because over the years I have received much of the same criticisms from individuals who do what I do and for the very same reasons.

The man is a true Master of Combat regardless of what people say and I would be more than happy to stand side by side with him in a real confrontation and I would be more worried if he was on the other side coming at me.

Deep respect to his skills I say

Pat

 

Yeah i've pretty much heard the same thing.
Really i've heard lots of complaints saying he made it up and a lot of pther relgous crap.
But if he can stand next to one of the best escrima guys in existence - I agree, what does it matter if he did.

I just was wondering what everyone's take on SV was as i haven't had much experience in weapons.

But again i dont appreciate maharaj lecturing me when i was just asking if you guys think Nidar Singh is legit and why and explaining the arguments against it (even though they counter arguments have nothing to do with MA and everything to do with religious quarrels).

EDIT: also his emergence was quite sudden into the public eye so questioning his skill and lineage isnt to far unreasonable when he claims a pretty important lineage that ive never heard anyone else claim.

 

The second video is a fine example of the similarities of the two arts. The misalignment. The gentle touch with the two fingers and the off balancing and limb destruction.

Best regards

Pat

 

Great videos and thanks for sharing. I agree similarities are there and it's clear to see just from his movement that he knows his stuff!

 

I thought that he was brilliant

 

Hi All

This is a very interesting thread!!! To see two such masters in a seminar together was a real pleasure and something i feel any discerning martial artist would enjoy. Even if you came away with more questions than you went in with then i think it’s worthwhile.

I have the privilege of learning from both Gurudev Nidar Singh and Tuhon Pat O'Malley for several years now and i have the utmost respect for both Masters. I find that the 2 arts inherently complement each other because they are working from the same principles. The idea of cutting the centre line, hitting the peripheral of an opponent’s weapons, taking superior tactical position in order to facilitate entry is not the sole trait of these arts but its present to varying degrees in ALL combat arts.

This was illustrated at the seminar time and time again, as each principle was demonstrated and expanded upon, with neither master having knowledge of what the other would teach yet still there was a massive underlying cohesion and synergy in the principles and techniques.

We all have 2 arms and 2 legs so it makes sense that any evolved fighting systems will have similarities. It is highly interesting to see the different answers that fighting arts come up with to the same questions - how do i deal with a knife? What do i do when i am being choked? How do i make the most efficient entry? Etc. What i have found is that the inherent differences in the arts come in part, from the respective cultural and geographical influences.

They are from different parts of the world with different terrain and modes of combat and both have evolved to become the most efficient mode of combat using their respective indigenous weaponry. This does not mean that the underpinning principles are that different within these arts, just the application and even then there will be similarities.

There is however a difference in movement. Filipino arts are influenced by their respective tribal cultures and trade partners(Spanish, Chinese, Malay, Indonesia etc - for more info try Filipino fighting arts by Mark v Wiley) not to mention empires like the Sri Visayan and Mahajaphit which originated in India and have had a major influence not only on Filipino arts but much of the Silat you see today.

Shastar Vidiya was also influenced by its surroundings and draws from the many cultures that it has come in contact with. Having roots back 5000 yrs and being present in its modern form for several hundred years. Originating in its present form from the University of Takshila in North India, the Vidiya was exposed to Greek, Roman, Ethiopian, and Egyptian not to mention Chinese influences. However most of all, it will naturally draw influence from the culture in which it was formed. Sikhism is about 600yrs old but Shastar Vidiya as an art form is much much older therefore will be influenced by its Hindu roots.

The use of mythology, iconography and folklore was used as a means of learning the art as well as understanding its underlying philosophical principles which are essential to gaining a deeper understanding of the art. One thing to remember – this is a War Art and its philosophical and mythological ideals will reflect that ( for more info look at the writings of Guru Gobind Singh ji the 10th Sikh Guru, namely the Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth). This use of Hindu references is one of the major bug bears of the detractors of the art within the modern Sikh community. However they do not understand the context in which the references are used so naturally miss interpret them and their closed minded ignorance and religious prejudice prevents them from finding out the truth.

When recognised masters of their arts with credentials of the calibre of people like Pat, GM Brian Jones and the members of the FMA British Council , Shihan Marc Moor and he likes of Maul Mornie advocating the art, the question has to be asked do the people who are saying the art is made up or fake have more experience than these noted masters?

I hope this has helped clear a couple of questions up but to be honest, you all seem like an intelligent bunch so forget the hype and go make your own judgement, come along to the next seminar and have a chat or pop in to one of the classes.

 

it's always facinating comparing differences/similarities between martial arts. Often, differences arise from the variations in legal, cultural and physical environments in which the art is developed, and similarities arise because there are only so many ways in which the body moves in to advantagious and disadvantagious positions...

Great videos, great training, I would certainly be interested in attending such a seminar should another be arranged.

Cheers, Harry

 

Amazing level of skill, blew me away.

Respect and thanks for posting.

 

I think what certain individuals miss and we get it in FMA too is this. My group dose it this way and we are told that this is the right way. Your group does it that way therefor you must be doing it wrong or making it up because we are right and you are wrong.

Just because someone has a different way does not mean they are doing it wrong. The Vidja guys do things differently to the FMA guys. The FMA guys do it differently to each other. Student 1 does it differently to student 2 etc etc but the end result and the underlying principles are the same.

Come along tothe next workshop and make your own mind up. You may like it you may not but you will never know until you try it. But I would take a bet you would like it

Best regards

Pat

 

well put Pat. I really like the indian stuff and love the FMA. Both are committed to what they do and produce excellent results. You have to find what works for you and what you can commit the training hours to!

 

Well good news. Just got to confirm a few minor details and next years workshop will be rather special. It will be a 2 day event around the Leicester area in March or April and will see 3 devestating arts from Asia side by side.

More details to follow soon.

Best regards


Pat

 

Wow Thanks Iron Monkey
Thats was a really informative post!

@Pat
Please up date us on MAP as soon as you hear about the work shop!
I'm quite interested in going!
I've been trying to get in touch with Jun Pueblos to learn some escrima but i cant seem to get a response!

 

workshop

Just like to give a big up to Maul Mornie, for coming down. Very humble, knowledgeable and respectable guy. Late Eid Murbarak.

Pat word of advise, I hope you book the biggest hall in Leicester.

Will the dates be on your website sometime soon?

Hope everyone enjoys the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nu9nwzr1XUg

Respect

 

The dates the 23rd and 24th March 2012 at Urban Martial Arts in Leicester. Just waiting for posters and full details and will post on the events section. My site and Facebook now we have three combat arts teaching under one roof for the first time. Places will be limited so getting your name down will be advisable

 

Oh and Master Maul Mornie makes three.