Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by juramentado, Dec 16, 2010.
400 duels? Yet you're still alive ?Wow, I'm impressed. You should put up you skills vs. PKT.
Wow, and to think I thought we were nuts in the ninjutsu subforum :hat:
I'm so happy that we're all as nuts as each other and that us ninjas don't have the monopoly on crackpots
Did you just throw some words together and make this up or is this a legit title/martial art?? No offense if its real, just had never heard of it before....
Grand Tuhon Gaje and Mandala Rommel Tortal
Goddamn. This thread was entertaining. And here I thought TKD and Ninjutsu had the monopoly on deluded evangelical nutjobs. Classic.
Wonder if some of these trolls ever heard of "libel."
Yup, we don't fight to the death but I have a few good scars along the way.
No death fights - man what chicken meat
Do you, like, use lightsabers n stuff?
I'm glad to see so many people in the FMA forum. I look forward to you all hanging around and having some sensible coversations.
This is longsword I use, we also do traditional singlestick which is probably closer to the FMA full contact unarmoured fights that you see Pat doing occasionally. Singlestick is a very old British traditional martial art.
but I thought duels are to the death. Did you mean spar?
No, very rarely would a duel be fought to the death. If you look at the historical records it paints a very different picture from what movies and TV have presented to us.
We use the term duel because both the arts I teach are duelling arts as opposed to the battlefield arts of the period. It also forces the student to realise that there are very serious consequences to not protecting themselves at all times. We have a risk assessment the likes of which would have most health and safety officers fainting.
Do you use this to spar?
I sure do, it is a fantastic weapon.
Seconded. I'm no expert, but the reading I've done about duelling in Western society has it that duels were often not to the death. There were lots of different "win conditions," arranged ahead of time.
Even the famous Filipino "death matches" didn't literally result in death all the time.
sounds like a spar to me. you should go to a Dog brother gathering. Their top dog was once a top PTK guy and several of them are ptk guys as well.
As my connection to this thread was pointed out to me recently, just wanted to leave a note here regarding posts such as these on forums such as this. I for one have no idea who KaliPooh73 actually is. I have no idea whatsoever as to why my name or website appear on this person's profile information here, or why they would lift a full paragraph of text from another blog about training I did for some other group. I have no idea why this person would bring Tim Waid's name into this, or Cris Aquino of Silicon Valley for that matter.
But that is not entirely truthful, as it is fairly evident to me and others in the PTKGO that a clever individual is stirring up trouble. We're of the opinion that authors such as these, or others who have been banned for similar sentiments, are in fact individuals (or the same individual) with a grudge of one kind or another against PTK or certain people in it.
Having spoken to Magino'o Waid and other instructors in the organization, I can say that any legitimate Pekiti practitioner or representative of the system will not toss out statements without identifying themselves fully. Anonymity is unnecessary and counterproductive, IMO. I am confident that members of the PTK Global Organization, if and when they do choose to post on this or any other forum, would not hesitate to identify who they are or for whom they speak. I encourage members of any PTK organization or association to likewise take responsibility for the words they speak or write. And it would actually aid communication via public forums for folks to promptly disregard any thread or post related to PTK where a signature is not fully disclosed. Nothing much of value seems to result from anonymously started threads. In that way, whether someone just wants to start fires or actually has something useful to contribute, then they and they alone will be accountable for their content.
Dino Martinez (Florida PTK)
The term "death match" is actually a misnomer when referring to eskrima matches in the Philippines. I don't think there is even a term in Filipino that easily translates into "death match". The term "death match" originated in the U.S., probably coined by the early American students of old eskrimadors in Hawaii and California, who knew little of the cultural nuances of the matches their teachers spoke about.
During the late 1800s and early 1900s in the Philippines, eskrima matches were common during barrio, later barangay, fiestas throughout the Archipelago. Dumog, or Filipino wrestling, matches were also popular. Town fiestas usually lasted a few days in honor of local Saints. A tradition which still continues today, fiestas were a time for each town to open up to other townsfolk to share food and celebrate.
It was during this time that traveling companies would act out the popular 'Doce Pares', and 'Moro-Moro' plays in front of eager children. Sipa matches were also popular. So, it is in this context that eskrima matches were made popular. In the early 1900s, boxing matches also became popular during town fiestas.
There were some eskrimadores who made a career out of attending these matches, challenging local eskrimadors. Reasons vary, some were doing it for the prizes, others just do prove their skills, but more commonly, many of these traveling eskrimadores did it for the women.
There weren't too many rules to these matches. There were no protective gears. But, the two opponents were able to choose what sort of match they were going to engage in. There was a match called juego sinyas. Juego is Spanish for game, while sinyas simply means to signal. So, a juego sinyas match was the safest of all matches, involving no contact, in which hits are announced when nearing the opponents head. There is juego toque (to touch) in which hits were established by controlled stick contacts to the opponent. Some of these controlled hits left bruises, but nothing serious. Then finally, and more popular, were the juego todo matches, which translaltes to 'all out game'. This was what most respectable eskrimadors engaged in. Anything goes, one man always wins.
They don't usually result in death. When the lesser eskrimador was severely hit, he would get knocked out or just simply surrender. Deaths were not really appropriate for fiestas. Eskrimadors, both the lesser and the better one, actually took great care not to escalate the match to death.
If the intent was death, then that would be a different category, that would be bahad.
It is sad to see that non-Filipino and Filipino-American students have to portray their teachers and other eskrimadors as blood thirsty lunatics, whose solely purpose was to kill, to be proud of them. It is sad, that they do not remember them as men with other passions, not just the martial arts. Many of these eskrimadors, were lovers of women, of music, wine, nature, freedom, and life. They were by no means simple mindless murderers.
Also, keep in mind that the Philippines is not a 'no man's land', there is a justice system present. Murder is not looked lightly upon in this country, as any other state with rule of law.
As this is the internet, it is possible that the mutant troll of this thread is merely somone with little better in their life other than to go around making baseless assertions and allegations.
Every now and again someone from the planet Zorg comes onto this forum and spouts a fair old bellyfull of old fish rot - like any other public forum.
As I am not annoymous - and I have no current or previous involvement with PTK, I will tell you who I am:-
Eddy Bett, Edinburgh.
the amount of times I have said to people 'do you honestly think if that person took part in 1 let alone 300 Death Matches that he would not have spent at least the rest of his life in prison for murder?'.
I don't understand why some people seem to think that the Philippines is a lawless society with no regard for life and safety of it's people. But then if people where told that like anywhere else you get arrested for criminals acts it would not sound so glamerous now would it and the dream for them would be lost.
I have been in the Philippines with my family and listened to other visitors who thought I was crazy for simply walking down the road with my kids and no armed escort as the honestly believed that it was a dangerous place to be? They believed the hype.
Yes the Philippines has places that is unwise to simply just visit on a whim but then so does every other country. But like other countries the have police, prisons, hospitals and friendly people too they are no different to any of us in that respect they just happen to have a wonderfully art that some people like to hype up a bit.
Terrific post. Thanks!
As for the "death match" title, it's clear that it's a bit euphimistic. Though I would point out that the term isn't solely a contrivance of Western audiences. I interviewed GM Cacoy many years ago, and it's the term he used to describe his various matches.
Really interesting to read your description of the various levels of match. They seem to mirror the leveling idea found in Western duelling that was brought up by Polar Bear. (Note: My knowledge of Western duelling, and duelling in general really, is quite limited. Mostly, it comes from a book written by Barbara Holland entitled Gentleman's Blood.)
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