If you can't be bothered reading the thread, don't expect others to make the effort to summarise it for you and stop making pointless posts that only serve to increase your post count.
American MMA, Are you and "JKD Student" on Tacketts forum the same person, or affiliated in some way?
Actually, that's exactly the type of stuff I'm refering to. If people practice MMA, that's cool. I practice MMA, so what can I say about that? But don't claim to practice JKD if you don't have the JKD structure. That's one of the biggest problems I see with a lot of JKD guys nowadays is that they aren't actually practicing JKD! And then when you confront them about it, you get the same argument every time - "JKD isn't about being a conformist" - And quite frankly, I think those people need to just give it up. If you don't want to put a label on it, that's fine... Don't call it JKD. I don't know if that's true or not, but man, I am a huge fan of Anderson Silva - I watch a lot of his UFC fights, and I even taped quite a few of them so that I could go back and watch them again. I'm not sure if Anerson Silva is a JKD guy or not (I don't think he is), but I think any JKD or MMA practitioner could learn a lot from watching Silva get down. I think Erik Paulson has a record of 11 wins, 4 losses and 2 draws, if I'm not mistaken. Anderson Silva has over 27 wins with only 4 losses, so my hat's off to him. I'm about as fascinated with Anderson Silva's footwork as Bruce Lee was with Mohammed Ali's footwork, and I think there's a lot we can learn from Silva. Yes, actually, that's one of my close friends and sparring partners. We live in the same neighborhood and train at the same gym. I taught him how to use a wooden sword, and he showed me some Wing Chun, but I also train with a few other guys from different backgrounds. Right now, we're all really interested in learning the same things. We're like one big family. He even came to my father's funeral. He's actually here, right now, at my house as a matter of fact. We play a lot of video games, I have a PS3 in my living room which everyone likes to jump on every once in a while, lol. I play a lot of UFC. Since none of the five guys I train with are actually affiliated with any martial arts schools, we pretty much just learn from each other through cross-training and sparring... And man, do we do a lot of sparring, lol.
What about those (common) cases where someone learns JKD through a recognized, traceable lineage and then moves toward MMA as (in my view) a very logical and well designed proving ground? Take Matt Thornton for instance. What he does looks very much like MMA. But what he's bringing to MMA, he's learned through a recognizable JKD lineage. Now you might dispute the lineage. Or the "structure." But I think you're on very shaky ground in doing so.
To be completely honest with you, I never really heard of Matt Thornton, so I can't really give you an opinion about him. But, I'm also a former JKD guy who now does MMA training, so it does kind of make sense to me what Matt Thornton is doing, and perhaps we're really just doing the same thing. There are a few people who would say that what I do is still Jeet Kune Do, but to me, I think, it's very clear. When I gave up the structure, I gave up the name, because I don't want to confuse people with what I am doing, nor do I want to go and take anything away from anyone else who claims to practice JKD.
I guess I find that kind of precision odd regarding the JKD naming convention. You call yourself an MMA exponent. Yet you have absolutely no involvement with the competitive format that generated the term. So, while you say you don't want to confuse people about what you're doing, your use of the term MMA IS confusing. And could be perceived as taking away from others who actually do compete in that format. I'm confused by your reticence to use a term that you clearly feel very strongly about whilst simultaneously using a term that applies to something you're not really doing. Not to my mind, in any event. Again, it's all open to interpretation. But you're freely sharing your interpretation. So there's mine.
I think your trying to mimick Bruce Lee more than you care to admit. Taking the name away blah blah it's only a name. Using no structure blah blah the formless form etc but latching on to the MMA term because it's easy advertising and a term that can be used loosely. I'm not falling for it. I reckon you don't have any qualifications in either JKD or MMA and are looking for a way to promote yourself. And for your edification MMA has been around a long long time as a matter of fact it used to go under the guise of Pugilism back in the 1700's and 1800's and they too where required to test their skills in the arena. See the link? Yet you don't do that? And if you don't know one of the biggest names in MMA? What you been hiding in a closet? Something don't sit right me thinks.
Someone said something about that before, and it might've been you. When I say that I practice MMA, what I'm really referring to is "mixed martial arts". By that, I mean cross-training in different styles. But there's also a slight difference between what I do and what a lot of other MMA guys do. While I was at the MMA school, there were a lot of people training to compete in the UFC, and I guess you could say that what they were doing was MMA as far as what you are talking about. But I was never really interested in competing in the UFC, so I didn't really train the same way a lot of them do. I was more interested in learning Street Defense, and things like that, so I started looking into different weapon systems and things like that. I also never learned a whole style, form, or system as you might call it. Rather than earning a degree in Jujutsu, and then earning a degree in Muay Thai, and a black-belt in Karate, or whatever, I never went out to master any specific style or system. I am not trained in 52 different martial arts, so that is not what I am referring to when I say that I practice MMA. There really is no politically correct term, or name, for what I do. I just call it "American MMA" for lack of a better word. But what I do might involve learning a specific technique, rather than a form or style. A good example would be when I met an Aikido practitioner. I don't know Aikido, and I don't claim to practice Aikido, but this guy showed me a technique which he called "rolling arms" or "rolling hands". I don't know the Aikido word for it, but any way, he showed me the technique and we practiced it together, and I played with it a bit while we were sparring, and it was actually quite effective. So I started practicing that technique. Another time would be like when I learned a specific type of arm-bar. I believe the style it came from was Brazillian Jiu-jitsu, but I can't be 100% positive. Again, I'm not really sure what the name of it was called, because I never learned Jujutsu, but I learned certain elements and techniques from Jujutsu which help to makeup who "I am" as a martial artist. So I've had a lot of exposure to different martial arts and I've definately picked up a few things here and there through cross-training, but as far as what I practice, I cannot really say because I don't really have a name for it, and I don't teach it. I just say MMA, because it's easier for others to relate to. I don't claim to practice JKD, because to me it's not JKD, it's something different. I know that when I was learning JKD, there was a definate structure involved in the JKD training that I was doing. Everything I did while training in JKD were things that Bruce Lee did himself. We had the by-jong stance, the gin-lai salute, chi-sao sparring, the JKD logo and things like that. But now, it's just a lot of full-contact sparring with people from different backgrounds. How can I call it JKD when a lot of the guys I train with never even heard of JKD? And whenever we spar, it becomes obvious that some of these guys have a Muay Thai structure, or a Jujutsu structure, or a Wing Chun structure, and very rarely do we ever practice the JKD structure. I think the closest I really get to it is when I'm boxing. I do frequently use the by-jong stance when I'm sparring, but a lot of the guys I train with prefer to use the classical Western Boxing structure or Muay Thai fighting stance. It's just easier for them because that's what they're used to. The only other person I train with who does JKD is the person who February mentioned earlier, and wouldn't you know, we're both in agreement that MMA is not JKD - so how about that? As far as promoting oneself is concerned, I don't really think you guys understand where I'm coming from. I don't teach martial arts, and I'm not affiliated with any JKD schools. I have no reason to promote myself because I'm not interested in becoming famous, or opening my own chain of schools. I use the term "MMA" because, you're right, it's a term which can be used loosely to mean many things. I use it because people tend to have a better understanding of it that way. I don't know anything about the Pugilism matches of the 1700's and I don't have anything to do with that. What I do know is that it's the 21st century, and people don't fight like that any more. I also know that there is a huge difference between Jeet Kune Do - and what a lot of people are claiming as Jeet Kune Do. So mimmicking Bruce Lee has nothing to do with it. It's more about respect, and being honest with myself. You don't have to 'bet' on anything, because anyone who's been keeping up with the conversation knows that I have nothing to hide. I don't have any degrees or certificates, or qualifications, in any style or system. That is not a secret, and it's not something I'm ashamed to admit. What I am ashamed to admit, however, is that there are people who have JKD certificates, who claim to teach JKD - but they don't even have the JKD structure! That's what gets me, and that's what causes me to voice my opinion. Other than that, I'm just here to learn.
American MMA, do you have any videos of your training etc. that you could post here? Just for the purposes of clarification. I know what I'd expect from a proper MMA training regimen and I strongly suspect what you do would look nothing like it. Backyard training etc. is all well and good, but I've yet to see any decent martial artists come out of that alone. I can only imagine how horrible a mish mash of techniques picked up here and there without the guidance of a proper instructor would look.
Unfortunately, I don't have any videos of my training. I wish I did, because believe me, I'd like to look at them myself to see where I messed up. I don't know what a proper MMA training regiment looks like, but I have my own personal training regiment which you can look up in the Training Logs section. My system is very flexible, and I have a whole bunch of equipment for different types of training. Although we don't have a certified instructor within our group, we learn from one another, and sort of guide ourselves along the way. Any sort of training is better than no training at all, and lucky for me, everybody I train with had a prior five years of experience in at least one style or another before we started training together. So in a way, I guess you could say that we did in fact form our own school, but it's really a closed door school that isn't open to just anyone. All of the guys I train with are people who I've known for many years, so we're more like family than anything else. It's one of those backyard learning facilities where there are no teachers, and everyone's their own student. These are people I trust though, not just guys off the street (unless you count us as the guys off the street ). I spar with a lot of these guys on a regular basis and we've never, EVER, had any life threatening injuries. We have had a few cuts and dislocations, amongst other things, but nothing you wouldn't expect to see at any other full-contact facility. When our guys spar together, they spar with power, as if they were really fighting. Of course everything is controlled. We have mats, open-fingered boxing gloves, shin pads, mouth peices, cups, referees, rules, and things like that, but the training is still very intense. Tonight, we practiced some classical unarmed Jujutsu techniques for disarming an attacker with a knife or pistol, and also a few improvised weapon strategies like using your shirt to disarm an attacker with a knife or pistol. Yesterday, we did something totally different, and tomorrow we'll probably practice Kickboxing or something, so it's not really like we need an instructor at this point. But that's not to say that the five of us would have gotten this far without the help of certified instructors. I don't think any of us would be where we are right now if it weren't for some sort of previous training. Our backyard gym actually got started by pure coincidence, because a few of us just wanted to workout. It started out as something small at first, and just kind of turned into a school for us. So it wasn't really intentional, but for me it turned out to be something good. I am still friends with a few of my old instructors, who I sometimes talk to from time to time, and I've even had the pleasure of meeting some of the other guys' instructors as well. I just can't afford to take classes any more, and none of us want to give up what we've already learned, so we all just train together, because the training's free. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I visit this forum... free training.
What were those "MMA home videos" you referred to in your training log then? Improper training is actually more dangerous than no training at all.
Interesting how it's not you, yet "JKD Student" somehow copied and pasted all of Hannibal's previous response onto a question thread over there, on the exact same date you began asking those same questions. http://www.jkdtalk.com/showthread.php?p=27651#post27651 Interesting how your writing style is identical as well....
Interesting that Tim says exactly the same fricking thing I said Didn't mention that did you cool breeze?
Those are Videos that people gave me, which I believe is mentioned in my Training Log. Actually, that was all done off of my computer. "JKD Student" does not own a computer. I'm the one who passed that information along. We talked about what Hannibal said, and I asked my friends what their thoughts were on the 26 arts in question. "JKD Student" passed it along, trying to get more insight. This was all done within a short period of time, actually. I actually didn't see what Sifu Tim said until today, and you are correct, it appears I have been mistaken. Bruce Lee did in fact incorporate techniques from Wing Chun, Boxing, Fencing, Taekwondo, Jujutsu, Praying Mantis, Choi Lay Fut, etc. That's 7 styles down, only 19 more to explain (not including the extra ones which aren't on the list). So you're telling me Bruce Lee learned 19 different kicks from 19 different Northern and Southern Chinese styles? Does that even sound logical? Why not just learn a bunch of kicks from one system, instead of 19 different systems? And where did Bruce Lee get these kicks from any way? Was he "properly trained" by 19 different instructors?
American MMA your unbelievable. You cannot be taken seriously. Your a joke. A keyboard and armchair warrior. And most importantly you've lost the plot.
