Hung gar kuen, videos, forms, technique,documentry

fair enough. Maybe just another of those Kung fu mysteries. :dunno:

 

What's interesting about this lock/break version was the use of the arm wrap from the outside position to control the arm before breaking it. This position requires much less strength to control the arm. It also helps to demo/reinforce the use of the wrist / hand position to control the limb as an alternative to gripping. I like to see this stuff and it seems predominantly tiger/leopard systems that do it this way. HG shows itself a stand up grappling / clinch fighting system but you have to keep your eyes open and examine things sufficiently...

LFD

 

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrchD1hkUow"]Jong Da Applications - YouTube[/ame]

Does anyone know what power is driving the downward back fist /hammer fist?

Is this power generated by expanding and closing the rib cage as used in mantis, shing e and related haka styles ? or is it powered more conventionally (for hung ga) from coiling in the tan tien plus a bit of shoulder muscle?

I have not seen rib cage power used conspicuously in hung gar forms before.

 

These are what I would call elephant punches. What makes an elephant punch is the coordination of sway of the hips with the arms. As anyone who has ridden an elephant knows they have a distinctive way of lurching as they walk. The power of the technique is in this lurching hip movement. Off the top of my head after a loooong day. I think you are correct that they do not appear in the other five forms.

I had not thought of that trap break before - definitely a good idea. My training partner will be pleased that you suggested it

I tend to use the movement more to break the opponents center, you can get a powerful bump that off balances the opponent opening them up to short range attacks.

 

When have the trap as you describe I tend to simply relax my own arm down over the top of the opponent's arm and turn in with my chest. Using the chest as the fulcrum of the lever against the elbow. but I am tall so I find this convenient.


Some people go so far as to suggest that Hung gar is principally a clinch fighting system. Personally I have always though of it as a multi range system. But it is certainly loaded with clinch work and some lines place particular emphasis on this.

 

It's interesting that you describe these as elephant punches (as the elephant isn't usually included as an animal in HG sets like Ng Ying). We interpret the movements slightly differently but no biggie. How do you see these steps in contrast to earth, metal and wood in the elements section in Ng Ying?

LFD

 

in my opinion the name elephant is more of a metaphor for this particular movement in this particular set. So it is not a key theme unlike the five animals of tiger, crane, dragon, panther or snake.

Agreed no biggie - but how do you interprearate the movements? I Am fascinated by the different , but equally legitimate, takes that people have on the movements.

I would see it in contrast to the wood movements (a nice example of wood given by sifu Bey in one of the clips above). Wood movements have a simultaneous movement of both arms combined with squeezing. So there are two vectors - inwards with squeezes and a pull / push. Elephant has a simultaneous movement of both arms combined with an opening so again there are two vectors but one is outward plus a pull / push.

In my opinion it is also interesting that the elephant punches come immediately after a butterfly pushing section. Looking at, and playing with, the two sections you can see and feel interesting similarities and differences in the mechanics of these movements.

 

Just a quick comment... in general if a movement is important in CMA it appears to be repeated a number of times (often 3) in a set. In the section we are discussing I am used to performing the locking break 5 times total ( a combination of moving forward and then backwards) before lifting the opponents foot and kicking underneath. It would be easier to appreciate what you are saying about the elephant punch if you could direct me to a video showing it? I sort of understand but it's not 100% clear. :' D

Thanks for the reply.

LFD

 

Movement repeated twice after the butterfly section at 58 seconds and again 60 seconds. The same movement you refer to in the other video but expressed a little differently with the arms - in my opinion the key thing is the the sideways movement of body mass. below he sort of progressively slides to the side of the lead leg (maybe leg power ?). I would express it with a little more of an accelerated pop towards the lead leg driven by coiling in the tan Tien. Also in the way we play it we repeat advancing 3 times and retreating 2 times.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxdB3mGba6I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxdB3mGba6I[/ame]

 

Good stuff! 3 + 2 = 5 so not dissimilar!

Again interesting that the way this is played reminds me of a chong choy in lung ying or high and low guan sau in wing chun... If you are doing hooking/locking breaks in the sequence going forward and back the movement emphasis shifts significantly to positioning for the lock/break.

Interesting to see that this movement does not seem to be shown, let alone emphasized, in a number of the lau gar sets that one sees on-line.

I can see why the emphasis is the way you describe it if the technique is done the way you have presented it. Always good to understand how we all understand the same thing slightly differently.

:' D

FD

 

On reflection I found another instance of the overhook/break , oddly enough, in the starting section of the second line of Gung Jie Fook Fu. It's done without stepping at this point and followed by a clearing movement to move the opponets arm away from your midline.

I guess if you look hard enough you can start to see all sorts of things ;' D

LFD

 

if its over-hooks you want - you can consider palm together homage to budda to be an over hook performed either inside or outside. Similarly the krane section at the start of tiger and crane contains any number of overtook applications. As does the tiger, to snake, to gold splitting, section in kung si.

 

Actually I was looking for the specific chi na type control in the arm bar using the over hook instead of using the grab/hit that might be seen more commonly as an arm bar control/break. Yes, lots of overhooks in the system but sometimes the subtlety isn't noticed with all the power floating about.

:' D

LFD

 

Bet there must be more out there who is hungering for more ''real'' HG discussion :' (

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxa3bIpmRFU"]Devo - (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - YouTube[/ame]

:' D

LFD

 

I like this documentary of the Lam Sai Wing branch because I think it's simple for anyone to understand. I think the agility the speed and the spirit of Hung Gar are really shown in this video.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Vb7yKZZL4"]The world of hung kuen Documentary eng.subs. (part 1) - YouTube[/ame]