I'd love to hear some tips from anyone studying Hsing I... I've been studying Yang style tai chi for about two years, and ba gua circle form for around six months. I'm interested in comparing the different internal styles and wanted to know some ideas about Hsing I. Anyone know some basic solo drills so I can learn the fundamentals of Hsing I? It would be good if you could give me a few tips and maybe relate them to the movements/principles of TJQ and BGZ. Cheers.
From what i know which is very little Hsing i or xing yi involves generating power through straight lines its a very linear art different to bag ua lot of explosive power as i said i don't know much about it but thats what i do know
Basically there are three Styles or systems of Hsing-I that developed within Hopei province. Conservative, Natural and Synthetic. Hsing-I manifests itself in Five elements or forms (Wu-Hsing). Those being: Splitting (p'i ch'uan)-The rise and fall of a chopping axe Crushing (peng ch'uan)-Simultaneous expansion and contraction Drilling (ts'uan ch'uan)-Flow in curves Pounding (p'ao ch'uan)-Suddenly projectile like striking Crossing (heng ch'uan)-Forward strikes with rounded energy Then there are the twelve Animal parts of Hsing-I. The basic feel is the same as Bagua, in that you use Rise, Fall, Drill, Overturn. Solid footwork is stressed and it is largely linear, the body is relaxed until the final instant. Once you have learnt the Five elements of Hsing-I, you do those as a solo drill. There are now some half-decent books on Hsing-I, which will be able to give you a good overview of training tactics and form, drills, including specific drills for developing the major league speed and power that Hsing-I is famous for. YMAA have done one by Liang Shou Yu.
There are quite a few Xing Yi Quan teachers in Sydney,including Sun Da Fa in Surrey,and Fong Lee in Chinatown.I would recommend checking out Yi quan (some mainland teachers at ANU,who are very good)as its training apporach has many simularities to EM systems. This site is good for Info www.yiquan.com Hope thats some good juice.
I think Hsing Yi (Xing Yi Quan) can be compared with Tai Ji Quan Chen Styles, because it's movements are explosive rather than armonius and beatiuful (Tai Ji Quan Yang style)....
how did you practice ba gua without hsing-i? ba gua is hsing-i & tai chi combined. you really need to understand those arts before you get into ba gua.
Keith1892 - In answer to your question, I practice Fa-jing taiji, Erle Montaigue's style. It is Yang (Lu-chan) taiji but it has much more fajing than usual Yang style. We do a lot of dim mak katas and power generation work in the class. My teacher (Keith Brown) also teaches Wudang Shan, so I have learned practice drills in that style, like wudang hand weapons forms, etc., that I think are similar to Hsing-I.
Keith Why do you feel BGZ is a combination of XYQ and TJQ? They are 3 distinctly different northern Chinese MA.While many a teacher learn all 3 and they are grouped as "Internal" I think you will find that this deirves from the fact of Locality(Northern China,Beijing) and that famous teacher's of those discilplines interacted with each other. Interested asI haven't heard of any reference that BGZ is a product of XYQ and TJQ combined? The closest I could think of would be of SLT combining all 3 into his own form of TJQ. Cheers
b/c it is a known fact that ba gua includes both hsing-i & tai chi. ask anyone who practices it. yes, they can be seen as 3 different arts but ba gua incorporates both hsing-i & tai chi.
OK Obviously you believe this to be true,but I am wondering where you got this information from? BGZ has many styles but general concenus is that it is derived from a gent by the name of Dong Hai Chuan who was teaching in Beijing area in the latter half of the 19 th century,who was inpart influenced by Daoist practisces. I am only speculating,that you have been told that the(BGZ) style you practise is a derivative of XYQ & TJQ, would that be correct? In opposition to this fact,I think if you place this question on KFO and check lineage/history infor(on the net) on BGZ, you will find the majority to be saying that BGZ developed from its own unique roots.
I don't know if this helps but I did Ba Gua & Hsing I for a few months. The style was Goa - I think. A legend/myth has it that a Ba Gua master had a fight with a Hsing I master and they could not beat each other. They made a pact that in future Ba Gua and Hsing I would be taught together. My undestanding is that most Ba Gua classes include Hsing I but the time spent is usually much more on Ba Gua. Tai Chi, Ba Gua & Hsing I are the three main/most well known internal martial arts of China. Each one stands alone as a Martial Art in that they have their own separate history and development. However Ba Gua & Hsing I came together as I outlined above. I understand that there is a Martial art called SUN style Tai Chi Chuan which althouhg it goes under the guise of Tai Chi is actually a blend of all three. In a Ba Gua class it is made clear that there is a period of time within the class when you are practicing Ba Gua as distinct from Hsing I but I don't know if the SUN style makes that distinction during the class or if the three arts are blended into an indistict bundle. A sad fact is that there are not very many folk in the UK who teach Ba Gua and Hsing I. However you have just prodded me into wanting to go back to classes again. Thanks
my teacher was taught by a man named Chiao Chang Hung. He was the top student of Mai Wei Chi, Who was the top student of Jan Yu-Lin, who was one of the 7 best students of Dong Hai Chuan. Yes, it is a fact that those 3 arts are distinct. & the story that was told about the 2 masters is true. but my teacher says that ga gua has both hsing-i and tai chi. if you do both arts, you can understand ba gua much better b/c majority of the moves, concepts, etc. will be the same. dmiller, i'm glad i i got u to think about taking classes again. i will see if i can find teachers for you that are in the UK
OK so your teacher told you that your style has influence from TJ&XY.This is very different from BGZ being a result of TJ&XY.Your original question to Nzric was with some ridicule,but the facts are that they are many styles of BGZ and while they may share simular principles each may have disinct training methods,particularly as DHQ encouraged fiting the art to the practitioner.People can leran BGZ alone,they can even learn circle walking alone,the greatest element effecting understanding is probally the teacher.
Also for more Hsing-I info try www.hsing-I.com which is Mike Patterson's site in CA, USA. Some very nice Hsing-I, Ba Gua, Tai Ji, Lu He Ba Fa (Sp?) and Chin Na clips, articles etc. Explainations of technical aspects etc.
I think I created a monster! Put it this way. I've been interested in the principles of Hsing-I as they seem to emphasis direct issuing force above other principles. But we should remember that it's not the art that matters, it's the practice. No-one would pass up learning a good method of movement if it helps some part of their training, just because it has the wrong label attached to it. I learned tjq from someone who is predominantly a ba gua teacher (Kat, as you know), so I'm aware my tai chi has a 'ba gua' flavour to it. Also, I'm not a small guy (I'm tall, not large) so I'm interested in the fajing and the power generation of the internal arts more than the quick, intricate movements that little guys tend to do, hence my interest in XY. I'd still argue that you can learn each art seperately, but it depends how you intend to use it. I agree all three are very valuable but we all know how difficult it is to understand the concepts behind the movements, not to mention the movements themselves, so you have to take things one at a time. The internal forms (of all three arts) are designed to teach the body mechanics and the way to understand your body - once you know your body you can just adapt new ideas no matter where they came from. Thanks for the links, everyone.
Nzric, Well said I was just annoyed at how Keith infered that your learning BGZ without first learning XYQ was bad.
i wasn't saying his training of ba gua without hsing i was bad. usually someone who teaches ba gua doesn't teach it until the student takes hsing i and tai chi. the commonality i was making between the three arts: hsing i, tai chi, and ba gua is that they are all internal...have crossed paths in history, and have similiarities in techniques.
